Welcome to PetForums

Join thousands of other pet owners and pet lovers on the UK's most popular and friendly pet community and discussion forum.

Sign Up

Rattle cans etc.

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by rona, Jul 23, 2009.


  1. rona

    rona Guest

    I seen a few people one here that advocate the use of rattle cans, training discs or water squirting to deal with a problem behaviour.
    I'm not sure that these methods go hand in hand with what is termed positive training as they rely on the shocked fear response of the dog to be effective.
    Anyone got any thoughts on this
     
  2. sequeena

    sequeena PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,583
    Likes Received:
    578
    I don't use them. Sky is afraid when I shake open a black bag, I dread to think how she'd react if I rattled a can/bottle in her face!
     
  3. Fleur

    Fleur Vassal to Lilly and Ludo

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    33,779
    Likes Received:
    12,451
    I use positive training methods 98% of the time.
    Mine get a loud "Ah-Ah" or clap of the hands on the odd occasion I want to interupt them.
    I wou;dn't want to install any fear which I think rattle cans etc can do.
     
  4. hazel pritchard

    hazel pritchard PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    35
    I used stones in a small bottle to distract one of my dogs barking at other dogs when we were out on a walk,all i did was shake the bottle at my side,the other side to the dog it was not a really loud sound to frighten him ,it just distracted him,and it worked after a few times i didnt need it again.
     
  5. Oblada

    Oblada Guest

    I was advised the rattle cans/bottles at the beginning when I got Diego but it didnt work - he was too interested in the can, not one bit shocked or frightened by the noise it made so eventually it became yet another toy ;)

    I do use water squirting ever so rarely for behaviours I really do not find a good way to deal with otherwise - basically unwanted behaviour such as barking in the tent or attacking the vacuum cleaner...but I always reinforce with praise and treats. It works because Diego does not like water - so yeah he does not enjoy it but it does not hurt him either. Its also more based on distraction than fear.
    I believe in some correction being necessary when training a dog, it cant all be treats and praise for good behaviour and ignore the rest - a bit like kids really.
    As long as correction is sparse and mindful of the individual dog I dont see a problem (and of course should be reinforced with more positive associations!).

    Dunno the training disc though, what is that?
     
  6. Fleur

    Fleur Vassal to Lilly and Ludo

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    33,779
    Likes Received:
    12,451
    That sounds like the correct way to use such methods, a simple distraction.
    I wouldn't say that was any different from a 'shsst' from the owner.
     
  7. rona

    rona Guest

    Excellent post, I agree wholeheartedly with your points :)
     
  8. JSR

    JSR PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,207
    Likes Received:
    317
    It's a hard one. These tools are not something to be used without professional guidance (Dog Borstal I love but they have ALOT to answer to!!:mad:). I have used water on Sidney to try stop his barking in the van (not worked though!!) and I've also used it for training dog agressive dogs, and it does work but you have to be quick and exact. I have also used a spray collar on a clients dog that was barking so much while kennelled (he is a working dog) that he was going to be 'removed'. I don't like it but for this dog it was the quick shock factor and it saved his life so in that case I absolutely would do it again!!

    Cans,bottles and disc's I'm not a fan of as I feel they are more fear related training tools and it's not the methods I'd advocate.
     
  9. davehyde

    davehyde Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,103
    Likes Received:
    57
    i haven't used any of those methods, not cos i dont like them just haven't used them.

    if my mutt starts to play up i try to always use my voice if i can, make him aware i MUST be listened to.

    i use the WATCH command to get him to look at me then i will make him sit or lay down to engage his mind a bit and distract him that way.
    i have also started whistle training recently and i have found a good peep can get his attention on me.
     
  10. PoisonGirl

    PoisonGirl Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    19,821
    Likes Received:
    388
    I have used the rattle bottle, to distract our rotti with when he was very focused on something, just to get his atention away from whatever it was he was staring at.

    I have also used it to help train a staff x who would jump and bark at the window at anyone going past, as soon as I shook it he would stop, to be rewarded for stopping.

    it did work on the occasions I have used it, however I do prefer to use positive reinforcement rather than correction but I used it as a last resort on dogs who I could not break their attention otherwise.

    x
     
  11. Bex190

    Bex190 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,380
    Likes Received:
    29
    When we got Rocky our second rescue dog 12 years ago, a behaviourist told us to use the spray bottle to stop him chasing the cats. Rocky never took any notice of the spray but out other dog Angel who had previously been good friends with the cats became so afraid of the she wouldn't look at or be in the same room as them even though she had never been sprayed.
    Since then I have only ever used positive training (LOTS of treats!) and have found it to be much more effective.
     
  12. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    17,685
    Likes Received:
    11,096
    I think it depends very much on the individual dog and how sensitive they are to these methods. Some would be traumatized by a rattle bottle, others shrug it off. It also depends on the intensity of the behaviour you want to alter - for a dog set on something to the point where it is thinking of, and responding to nothing else, then one of these 'punitive' methods could be the only way to get through to it.
    I have used a spray collar to stop my dog invading football matches, and it has worked brilliantly. I also occasionally use a squirt bottle when she persistently barks at other dogs, for instance at agility training. It is enough to stop her if she knows it's nearby! She is a collie cross jack russell, a combination of sensitivity and devil-may-care attitudes.
     
  13. Dingle

    Dingle PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,427
    Likes Received:
    140
    I personally have never had to use any aids, a good firm NO! has always worked for me... but i guess the are better than using E-collars...:eek:
     
  14. Nonnie

    Nonnie PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    16,848
    Likes Received:
    9,087
    Ive used one on Oscar. But it wasnt until about a year after i got him, and i had consistently tried other training methods.

    I was taught the appropriate way in which to use it, and only used it for a couple of issue, not for every aspect of training.

    Worked a treat, and now all i have to say is "tin", as "no" seems to fall on deaf ears sometimes. Only had to use it a handful of times aswell. Tbh, its more of a diversion rather than a punishment. I most certainly do not have a nervous or scared dog. because of it.

    I wouldnt use it for Alfie though, and never have done.
     
  15. Have used the water spray! the stones in jar ect works pretty much the same as the spray corrector! which I find is damd good for anti social behaviour!
    Was tempted to try some training discs once! But the dog has to be wthin a reasonable distance (mind you it does with all these options) and it is important that the discs are thrown/shaken/dropped in the instance!
    regards
    DT
     
  16. PoisonGirl

    PoisonGirl Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    19,821
    Likes Received:
    388
    I use the spray bottle. 'no' just doesn't cut it when you got 4 dogs running about and 2 of them just want to playfight! Lol

    x
     
  17. Nicky09

    Nicky09 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    4,107
    Likes Received:
    77
    I don't mind them if used by someone who knows what they're doing or has trainer supervision. It depends on the individual dog positive renforcement doesn't work for every dog sometimes you have to use these methods.
     
  18. stellasmama

    stellasmama PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    0
    we briefly used a rattle can when we first got Stella to stop her barking in the house. She barked at the tv....she barked in her crate. It was a small can with just a few pennies in it that we carried around with us. When she barked we would shake it once (not at her or in her face) and the noise would distract her from barking....then we would praise for being quiet.

    Now she seldom barks and when she does we just make a "ssstttt" noise and she stops.
     
  19. Goldie57

    Goldie57 PetForums Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    1
    I can see how it could be a safe way to distract a dog from an undesired behavior when using one's voice didn't work. It would depend on the dog. My two dogs are so noise- and motion-shy, it would be terrifying. But all dogs are different, and require different training methods--mostly positive, hopefully.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. alphadog

    alphadog PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2009
    Messages:
    1,629
    Likes Received:
    84
    I've used water in situation where I need to interrupt a crazed mindset in order to follow up with positive reinforcement of calm behaviour, which seems to be the element that is missing when I see self taught people using these methods :(. I also agree with Oblada... it has to be about the dog and you should be confident that your dog will not be adversely affected. I carry a pet corrector on most walks, just in case something kicks off with another dog, a quick interrupter is far better than two or more injured dogs

    Training Disks, although having their roots in the same 'punitive' principles, are slightly different. A dog is conditioned to the disks to understand that the sound of clinking disks means 'removal of praise/treats', which is a powerful punishment in itself (conditioning is done in the exact reverse to conditioning for the clicker). The chink of the disks is not about a loud noise or shock but a trigger in the dog's brain that this is not an acceptable behaviour and signifies removal of pleasure. Disks can be effective, but are totally impractical to use.... I tried them many years ago and they were always rattling in my pocket or dropping on the floor at totally the wrong time
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice