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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
a frend of ours got a Labrador who it turned out has a bad problem with HD and as she had got him from a good breeder a term id use loosly, with a lifetime return policy, they got it touch and told the breeder who agreed to take the dog back if they wanted. Sophie said no coz he was already part of the family but asked what they would do wiv him if he went back.... i wont tell you yet wot there reply was coz i want to see what ova breeders would do please...
 

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i`m not a breeder but if i was and was in that situation i would take the pup back and keep it as a pet and have her treated for the condition. some breeders are just horrible my mom being an idiot got a dog from a puppy farm who had a heart murmur and she took her back only to find out the poor little mite had been sold on again, it`s shocking what some will do purely for money :mad:
 

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I assume if the HD was bad it would be PTS, if it wasn't so bad they would probably neuter it, if it wasn't already, and find a new home but sell without papers. However I don't breed, but would think that is what will happen.
 

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Not a breeder (yet), just wanted to comment as there are a lot of questions I'd have to ask before really giving a view. Was this a pup or one that they'd run on for a while to see how it turned out? If it was a pup, and the HD was so severe that it hadn't got much quality of life, then it might be better for it to be put to sleep, rather than to allow it to suffer, with not much quality of life, hard, but you have to put the well being of the animal first.

Personally, I should have thought a responsible breeder would ask for a referral of their own to a specialist, to see whether the opinion of the vet who diagnosed severe HD was in actual fact correct, but it depends on the state of the pup, it might be very obvious, or not. Dogs can have severe HD all of their lives and never show any signs of lameness. Others have mild HD and are completely unsound.

I'm afraid your friend has to put her feelings to one side, think about what is best for the dog/pup, and not let emotions alone guide her. Has your friend got insurance? Depending on just what needs to be done for the pup/dog, to allow it to live as a normal and painfree a life as possible, you'd have to judge whether it is worth putting this animal through that. If she hasn't got insurance, then really she's not got many options. She can apply for help from various organisations, I believe the PDSA are one of them, but operations to correct serious HD run into several thousands of pounds.

It's also worth bearing in mind, you cannot guarantee good hips from low scoring parents, hip scores can only be used as a guide for making breeding decisions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
the dog is only 9 months old and sophie wouldn't let him go back to the breeder coz they said they would kill it and she herd the man saying while she was talking to the wife that he'd drown it:mad:. Sophie will keep him, get him checked at another vet and take there advise, if it is so bad he l suffer then so be it but if not he will get all the treatment he can have. As for the breeder he should be drowned.
 

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the dog is only 9 months old and sophie wouldn't let him go back to the breeder coz they said they would kill it and she herd the man saying while she was talking to the wife that he'd drown it:mad:. Sophie will keep him, get him checked at another vet and take there advise, if it is so bad he l suffer then so be it but if not he will get all the treatment he can have. As for the breeder he should be drowned.
Unfortunately, it sounds as though your gut feeling about this breeder are right, that they aren't really responsible. If your friend had gone to a good breeder, then she would hopefully have got help and back up from them, rather than just an offer to drown the pup, even if it was only a listening ear and good advice.

Your friend should perhaps ask her vet to refer them to a specialist for an appointment, to see the extent of the HD and whether there is anything they can do about it. Some cases are manageable just with controlled exercise and weight, even cases that at first glance you would imagine the dog must need an operation. So it's worth getting the opinion of a specialist. Have a look at this website, and point your friend in the direction, there's lots of information on there Lab-Health, unfortunately the advice about what to do before getting a puppy is a bit late, however there are a lot of useful stories on there of Labs with HD of varying degrees, and what medical treatment they've had.
 

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Well, I find it very odd that breeders who care enough to offer lifetime support with their pups would then drown a sick one... hmmm..

But, if a similar problem ever happened with one of my pups we would take it back and if necessary have the pup pts as I dont agree with letting them suffer with such a painful condition. However, I would be very surprised if anyone would want to give up a pup at that age after havign it for 7 months so can understand your friend wanting to keep it. If the pup is insured and the parents were hip scored, she should be able to claim on the insurance for treatment.
 
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thats a Terrible breeder to offer to take the dog back and drown it ive never heard of anything so disgraceful!:mad:


has your friend reported them to the breed club and the KC? this is the 1st thing i would have done, they have a code of ethics so would take disiplinary action and/or expelle them!
 

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Well, I find it very odd that breeders who care enough to offer lifetime support with their pups would then drown a sick one... hmmm..

But, if a similar problem ever happened with one of my pups we would take it back and if necessary have the pup pts as I dont agree with letting them suffer with such a painful condition. However, I would be very surprised if anyone would want to give up a pup at that age after havign it for 7 months so can understand your friend wanting to keep it. If the pup is insured and the parents were hip scored, she should be able to claim on the insurance for treatment.
It's a sales gimmick relying on people to form an attachment to a puppy before they find out what health problems they have. Nothing to do with breeders caring about puppies
 

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I'm assuming that the pups parents were hip scored and that your friend saw the paperwork ? - I have had a couple of dogs that I have bred back - apart for one who came back to me at 10 years old -( and stayed here ) - the others were found another home.

Health tests are greatly to be encouraged but as has been said before no breeder can guarantee that HD will not arise even from parents with 0:0 scores - some of the problems are environmental or the results of inappropriate excercise - if the problem is not too severe in this case and the dog is still likely to have a good quality of life then I would rehome if it was returned to me - if the HD was too severe then I would have the dog put to sleep to avoid suffering
 

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I offer lifetime support for my babies, it's not a sales pitch and I'm certainly no puppy farmer !!
I don't think that post was aimed at people like you, just that an offer of life time support doesn't necessarily mean that *whoever* is a good breeder, or that they will actually give that support if/when needed. It's more a case of 'buyer beware', a bit like the KC's ABS, being a member of that scheme does not make you any better than anyone else, if you see what I mean, it's your actions as a breeder that prove it. Unfortunately, Joe Public are often fooled by simple claims such as being an *Accredited Breeder* [of an unknown scheme or one made up by disreputable breeder], *Lifetime Support* [will drown it FOC when you don't want it/can't afford it/find it's faulty], *Full Pedigree* [here's one I made up earlier and registered with dog pedigrees r us], *Health Checked* [vet said both parents looked ok], etc, etc.
 

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from a breeder's point of view i feel the need to clarify a few things (and hopefully give an explanation for what i am saying...with, possibly, some suggestions)

has you friend...
- checked that the pups' parents are health tested?
if not tested/or lied to about it (especially in a breed where HD is not that uncommon) then i suggest to take the breeder to a small claim court as he/she has a very good chance of getting money to help him/her care for the pup's condition...the court now is very favourable to owners in such situations and it would be only time that bad breeders were made accountable for their actions

- followed the breeders' instructions on how to care for the pup
as a breeder of heavy dogs i see the tendency of the new families of my pups to disregard my suggestion about exercising/walking jumping and going up and down the stairs...in fact is something that i insist a lot and keep a keen eye on...fortunately i haven;t had to intervene if not by reminding them that the weight of the dogs itself might cause problem...and with patience they would saved the dogs (pups) from certain pain and discomfort and themself a pack load of money

- is the dog/pup properly diagnosed? (with x-rays) as sometimes the pups can get a bit lame during growth spurts and it can be painful especially if the diet is not appropriate...or the level of exercise excessive...and they show practically every symptoms of HD or similar ailment/deformity that will get back to normal at a later date with proper diet and rest/exercise balance

- if HD is confirmed has your firend though of a one off orperation to provide the dog (once fully grown) with artificial hips...it is a bit pricey but it' known to work quite well and give the dogs a good quality of life and it' s a one off cost

- destroying the pup unfortunately is a common practice especially if breeders breed a lot or have many dogs...the breeders' attachment to their dogs/pups seems somewhat diluted by having multiple litters/many dogs....but it is not justified (as it was in the old days when dogs were valuable working stock...and a lame dog would mean the difference btween doing business in the farms or going under giving their cost...)
however if the condition developed at such a young age, and there aren;t the means to provide for a good quality of life maybe a lethal injection might be the humane thing to do


forgot to add:

- if everything has been done by the book...by the breeder and the owner, i guess then that a solution (in terms of support even financially if necessary) can be reached, obviously taking into consideration the welfare of the pup...

sorry... if i am not of much help...just trying to pass on my opinion

best of luck to the little one
D
 
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