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Question about fenili complete

Discussion in 'Cat Health and Nutrition' started by sante, Oct 15, 2013.


  1. sante

    sante PetForums Senior

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    I am looking to move Rosie over to a complete raw food diet and have today received the following:-

    - (b)Natural Instinct Chicken & Lamb(/b), 1 tub purchased from local supplier. I chose this flavour because it seems to be the most favourite and seems to be more popular than the others according to Natural Instinct websites feedback and feedback on other websites. I will be trying this with Rosie tomorrow when a tub has finished slowly defrosting in my fridge.

    - 8 tubs of Nutriment Chicken
    - 8 Tubs of Nutriment Salmon
    I purchased only these two flavours because Rosie won't entertain beef let alone eat it :001_rolleyes: If Rosie turns her nose up at these I will be selling them, as I have noticed Nutriment hasn't been very popular.

    if for some reason Rosie doesn't like any of the above I will then make home made food for her by sourcing meat locally.

    Can I ask, instead of me spending a small fortune on buying individual supplements, how much fenili complete should I add to her food? I worked it out to be roughly 0.74g per 60g so that's 148g for 120g per day feeding 3% of her body weight that being 4kg. I used the amounts on zooplus's website and came up with this formula which is 0.80g of fenili complete divided by 0.65g food equals 0.01230769 multiplied by 60g food equals 0.7384614 rounded up equals 0.74g of fenili complete. Would it be right to assume 0.74g of fenili complete is right for a 60g feed (148g per day of fenili)?

    Thanks for any help and advice given.
     
  2. Satori

    Satori One of Life's Winners.

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    Yes that's right. You mean 1.48g of course, not 148g. It will add £1.25 per kilo to the cost of the meat.
     
  3. sante

    sante PetForums Senior

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    Thanks for the reply. Just noticed the mistake, I forgot to put the dot in :) thanks for correcting me.

    I have ordered a tub of the fenili complete from zooplus for future use, I think this would be easier to use than having to buy all the different supplements.
     
  4. Citrineblue

    Citrineblue PetForums VIP

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    Another mix for Raw which is recommended by Hobbs is TC Feline Raw mix. You order it from the German site Tatzenladen. My five prefers it to Felini, so if Felini doesn't work there is this alternative. Nicole has great written English if you have a query.

    http://www.tatzenladenshop.de/en/TCPremix/TCPremix-Basic
     
    #4 Citrineblue, Oct 15, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  5. Paddypaws

    Paddypaws PetForums VIP

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    My personal opinion is that no pre-mix should be used exclusively or long term....I just don't think anything can take the place of real bone.
    It really is not too expensive or difficult to gather the necessary supplements individually and mix the food up your self.
     
  6. Satori

    Satori One of Life's Winners.

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    Oooh, what I would love is a make your own 'Felini' recipe.

    The DIY raw recipes are no use to me because mine have to be coerced to eat mince; they really are more into chunks of meat. I tried chunks of meat in a complete mince and two of them grabbed at the chunks and shook them to get the mince off, making pointilist kitty art on their dining table.

    Frankenprey doesn't work well for me with three kitties who will all choose their favorite bits and refuse to follow the spreadsheet :rolleyes:

    But, if I could make my own pre-mix including real bones and know what was going into it; something that could be used like Felini, that would be the perfect solution for my gang.

    Any ideas how to go about it?
     
  7. Paddypaws

    Paddypaws PetForums VIP

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    Satori....you are the numbers/statistics genius....I am sure you can come up with a plan!:D
    My home made mix is pretty chunky, and while some cats do try and eat the chunks but avoid the mince, I am convinced they get a decent enough mixture along the way.
     
  8. CoCoTrio

    CoCoTrio PetForums VIP

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    Is there any hard evidence that FC or any other commercial supplement is not good in the long-term? I can understand that real bone is maybe preferable, but that's not to say FC or similar can't be safely used long term, or exclusively.
    ?
     
  9. Satori

    Satori One of Life's Winners.

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    None that I have found. It is a complex question. Ultimately, it does not matter what goes into a cat food so much as what remains in it (after loss through cooking, chopping, grinding and freezing) and what of that is bio-available. Short of sending a sample of your home-made raw to a lab, you'll not really know what's still in it.

    Logically, the case against supplements is easy though. We know from human experience that extracts and synthetics often don't work as well as as equivalent doses obtained in the natural plant or animal host (resveratrol e.g). But an alternative argument can also be made....

    An 80/10/5/5 home made raw of all natural ingredients still excludes many organs, skin, fur, blood etc... and the premixes are intended to account for all of this by deriving a meal roughly in-line with the published nutrient profiles.

    hmmmm.
     
  10. Satori

    Satori One of Life's Winners.

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    Are the bone in bits ground chunky also?
     
  11. Satori

    Satori One of Life's Winners.

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    Sorry, 'nuther question. One of the TC Feline Premixes uses ground freeze dried bones instead of calcium minerals. A better option?
     
  12. CoCoTrio

    CoCoTrio PetForums VIP

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    Interesting.

    It does seem like we're in the realms of supposition, and so I would be glad to suppose that a diet of raw meats and pre-mixed supplements would be at least comparable to most of the readily-available alternatives. I mean we're not warned against long-term feeding of good quality canned food, so I don't suppose there's any reason to warn against long-term feeding of raw meats with good quality pre-mix.

    It would be interesting to have laboratory analyses to measure nutritional differences between a typical home-made raw meal and a typical plate of meat and Felini. I wonder how they would actually compare.
     
  13. Satori

    Satori One of Life's Winners.

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    Well, TC feline say they had the analyses done of a meal made with their premix vs a meal of minced mice....


    Reinventing the Mouse – nutritional analysis of mice
     
  14. Paddypaws

    Paddypaws PetForums VIP

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    I tend to chunk as much of the meat off the carcass and then grind the carcass....and have even used fully stripped 'backs' from the butchers for a mix.
    As for the idea of freeze dried bones, that does sound interesting.
    I am presuming that canned pet foods would be made up up from rendered carcasses including bone, rather than using a calcium powder.
     
  15. CoCoTrio

    CoCoTrio PetForums VIP

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    Nice! Would like to see the actual data, but that's reassuring - as far as it goes.

    FC versus TC? I wonder if anyone can compare the two... :eek:
     
  16. Satori

    Satori One of Life's Winners.

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    FC adds £1.25 per kilo whereas TC adds £3.75 per kilo to the feed cost, so TC is more expensive by a factor of 3 :yikes: so it must be better right? :D
     
  17. CoCoTrio

    CoCoTrio PetForums VIP

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    [​IMG]

    :thumbup1:

    I'm definitely going to have to get some. :D
     
  18. Citrineblue

    Citrineblue PetForums VIP

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    That is the one I get, with New Zealand bone minerals but not the liver. I just felt that this would be the more natural. I add liver with my mince and chunks. I've been very pleased so far with their response to the mix.
     
  19. Satori

    Satori One of Life's Winners.

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    Ordering mine tomorrow. I've already had the chat wiith my gang about them having to like it.
     
  20. Citrineblue

    Citrineblue PetForums VIP

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    With regards to TC Feline, if you go onto the original Canadian site

    TCfeline homemade raw meat cat food

    You can get lots of extra information. Also there are some different basic Raw recipes, and photos demonstrating how the mixture should look at each stage etc etc etc
     
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