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puppy acting violently

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by dickybirdclocks, Apr 27, 2011.


  1. dickybirdclocks

    dickybirdclocks PetForums Junior

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    Earlier tried removing a pigs ear from pup and it went psycho ,it has never reacted when removing anything before ,First time it had tried a pigs ear but cant see why the object should matter .Dog was snarling and had a bite at my hand .Any explanation ? could do without a violent dog as its getting bigger by the day "Ridgeback".
     
  2. Jackie99

    Jackie99 PetForums VIP

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    Deleted Post.................
     
    #2 Jackie99, Apr 27, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
  3. Taylorbaby

    Taylorbaby PetForums VIP

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    lol I would have done the same! How dare you take the bar of dairy milk from my hands! you fiend!! :D :D :lol:
     
  4. dickybirdclocks

    dickybirdclocks PetForums Junior

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    I went to remove it because he had had plenty of treats all day .He had had the pigs ear for half an hour and was due his last meal of the day (goats milk) so was intending taking it away to be returned tomorrow at some stage - had to coax him with the goats milk to take his mind off the pigs ear in the end .Was just taken aback at the violence he showed .
     
  5. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    :eek: :eek: If a child was eating an ice-cream or bar of chocolate, and you took it out of their mouth they would scream blue murder.

    The puppy is NOT violent, it is being a puppy and you have to build up a relationship of trust in order to be able to take things out of it's mouth - but IMO - giving it a pigs ear and then deciding half way through he's had enough treats for today is nothing short of cruel.

    He doesn't understand what you are doing and why - you have to build up to scenarios where you can take things from your dogs, I've got 7, and can take anything out of their mouths or remove a food bowl when they are eating.

    If he had something in his mouth he shouldn't have done, then yes, you would have no choice in such circumstances but to remove it - but to give him a treat and then take it away :(

    it's a PUPPY, a puppy has to learn boundaries and trust - that takes time - it's not violence - but you may have gone some way towards contributing to potential food aggression - you need to first be seen to give, then teach to take away - pop small bits of food into his bowl when he is eating.

    Don't be surprised though if you get a similar response in the future - you need to work on building up the trust and teaching the puppy it's boundaries.
     
  6. DirtyGertie

    DirtyGertie PetForums VIP

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    My son has a 3 yr old labradoodle, soft, stupid, always over friendly, mothers their 11 month old bichon. They can remove her food bowl while she is eating and take anything else off her but NO WAY can you have her pigs ear! That is the one thing that she has been possessive over and would growl if he went near it. He no longer buys them for her!
     
  7. dickybirdclocks

    dickybirdclocks PetForums Junior

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    The last post was one i expected - Something about a pigs ear ? .As for being able to take things from dog - i would indeed like to be able to take away an item without getting mauled no matter how tasty dog thought the item was "Jimmy Choos " as an example.
     
  8. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    You teach him that he gives up whatever he has and he gets something yummy/a favourite toy. What would you prefer someone just coming and grabbing a favourite snack from you or giving you something better in exchange?

    Start with something lower value than a pigs ear something you know he'll let you take. Offer a better treat, when he drops it tell him "drop it" and give him the treat. Work up to the pigs ear
     
  9. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    Certain things are classed as high value to dogs, pigs ears and things like real bones tend to be the main culprits. Its called resource guarding, they literally protect what they class as their prized possesion. Did she actually go for you straight off or give a growl first? If she growled first, then when you didnt back off and still went to get it she bit, thats not quite so bad. Although far from ideal of course, but at least shes given a warning first.
    If you get in the situation again dont just grab, and if she growls dont carry on, it will only make her guard worse and go to 2nd base the lunge or even bite. Instead try getting her to swap it for something else she really loves (Mine will do anything for cheese) experiment see what is best favoured treat.
    Offer it instead, If she drops it give the treat, lure her out with more and shut her in the kitchen or another room, while you retrieve it and put it away.

    Is she ok with everything else and has it just been this one episode with her first pigs ear tonight? If its a total one off, and shes ok with anything else, I would not give them and stick to things she does give up and doesnt guard instead. If she does it again though with anything you need to nip it in the bud and dont let it escalate.
     
    Jenny Olley likes this.
  10. dickybirdclocks

    dickybirdclocks PetForums Junior

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    Nip it in the bud sounds ominous. Me being a novice i rely on others who have experience and i am surprised the amount of people who say "Show it who is boss" when i ask how i should do this i am told to smack the dog - i delve further and ask how would i know how hard to "Smack" and the answer is pretty much always "Hard" i have even been told to punch it on the nose and the majority of these advisors are long term experienced dog owners breeders and handlers .
     
  11. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    Ignore those people you don't need to show a dog who's boss and you certainly don't need to hit it :rolleyes:. Even a breed like a ridgeback will do fantastically with positive training no need to hurt it.

    Not the same breed but I was reading a site from someone who has had 14 giant schnauzers and now has 1. 11 of which were trained with those type of methods the last three clicker trained. Giants are one of those breeds most people insist must be dominated too strong willed etc etc they just don't respond to positive training. She would never go back to old-style training because of the change in the dogs when you do clicker train. They're such an intelligent breed and so are ridgebacks no need to hit them or dominate them. She took one of hers to a national specialty show for the breed and was signed up to do a lecture on clicker training. No one was going to it these dogs don't respond to positive training etc. Took it to the flyball set up, never tried it before, within half an hour was doing it so well people were asking what team they ran for same with the search and rescue. By the end of the day the lecture was booked solid. Just to show that you don't need to use punishment style methods on a dog positive training works so much better
     
    #11 Nicky10, Apr 28, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
  12. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    Its not as ominous as it sounds. I looked on your other post and notice he is 13 weeks? A lot goes on around this time in their mental developement. You can still show it whos boss as such if you want to use that term, but smacking the dog and punching it on the nose is not the best way, you can create problems.

    Human socialisation is about 7/12 weeks. pups begin to process their experiences (These are approximates dont forget) They can also have a fear period bad experiences can can damage trust and bonding. He will also be coming to a period where he will start to see what he can get away with.

    Personally I think you need to start establishing boundaries and start serious training with him. Look at getting him into a training class asap now he can start going out. Look for a structured well run class that uses reward based methods, he needs it for socialisation around other dogs, and to start learning obdience, they do tend to be receptive at this age to learning, around 6mths or so they can really start to feel their feet, so the foundations that you set now will make the transistion through this period easier.

    Start at home, doing training sessions a lot can be acheived even with 2 or 3
    10/15 minute sessions a day, teaching the basics of sit,wait,stay,down etc, recall. Mix it with a bit of controlled play using the training as well, like getting him to sit throwing a toy, encourage him to return it and drop, offering a treat, when he drops the toy, as he is doing it say drop, repeat drop and then give the treat. Get him to do things like sit for his dinner, anything he wants, he sits and waits. get him to work for things rewarding when he does as he is asked. Any behaviour you dont want, he gets no attention, he gets attention praise and treats for being calm.

    If you do all this consistently and keep up the training and get him into a class. then you should start to see a difference.
     
  13. Dogless

    Dogless PetForums VIP

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    Two really good books (in my opinion) to help you understand these issues are:

    'The Other End Of The Leash' Patricia McConnell
    'Mine!' Jean Donaldson

    The first explains why our dogs behave as they do and the second deals specifically with resource guarding.

    Kilo had to be worked up pretty slowly to taking away some things, even as a swap. I found that holding an item to swap in my hand was sometimes too much for him and he wouldn't accept it, but if I placed it on the floor he would give up what I wanted and take the alternative. I play swap with all sorts of items and give them back most of the time, so that he learns it is a bonus to give me things.

    Please, please don't use any force on your RR, Kilo's breeder made a strong point several times that they are very sensitive breed and the use of force will not only damage their trust in you forever (she said they never forget) but is also likely to escalate a situation. I certainly think that is true; I really try and do everything very calmly around Kilo, but on the occasion he has driven me to raise my voice through sheer frustration it just drives him to behave worse than before.

    Finally, I didn't know how to phrase this as I certainly don't want to cause offence, but I think that you need to focus less on his size, more on his brain. In your posts you mention that you are 'massive', your pup is 'massive' and 'pure muscle'. Behind the size is a highly intelligent (as I'm sure you've found out!) and very sensitive breed.

    I think a lot of idiots out there like you have encountered think 'big dog, must show it who is the boss via physical means'. The number of people who have told me to hit Kilo or otherwise use physical force is disappointingly large. They also tell me I won't be able to handle him as he will be too big and strong for me. If that was the case, how come I see tiny people with huge, well-behaved dogs and some big, beefy types with out of control small dogs?

    Now I am all for FIRM handling and boundaries but I would never, never resort to force. I love the 'benevolent leader' concept and try to be that to my dog. I try to see things from his perspective and what motivates him. I imagine him thinking 'What's in it for me?' if you like and then things become a little simpler than they seem. E.g., if I lie down calmly I get a tummy rub; if I walk nicely on a loose lead I get treats / praise / a toy; if I don't try to get on the sofa I get a game on the floor; If I put down my stolen shoe I get a game of tug with my toy etc etc etc.
     
    #13 Dogless, Apr 28, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
  14. ballybee

    ballybee PetForums VIP

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    I agree with dogless. Ridgebacks do not respond well to violence and are extremely smart dogs(i have a lab X ridgeback). I think i would murder you if you were to walk over and steal my favourite food(yorkshire puddings for anyone that cares :p ) but if you offered me something that was also yummy i think i'd be much less peeved. I worked hard with Tummel on leave it and drop it as he gets real bones(OH is a butcher) and he did growl at my OH once for walking too close while he was eating it but now i can say "my turn" and he gets up and walks away from it :D

    As the term goes "you don't get something for nothing"

    Do try the swap method, ridgebacks learn very quickly and as i siad, don't respend well to violence. He's only 13 weeks old and he will learn quickly what he can or can't get away with.
     
  15. Cleo38

    Cleo38 PetForums VIP

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    Jesus, what sort of people do you know?! :mad:

    I think you should stop listening to these people & start to read about dog behaviour yourself. I read 'The Culture Clash' by Jean Donaldson when I ot my first dog & it was really helpful. Also her other book 'Mine!' as recommended by Dogless is great for understanding resource guarding.

    As previously advised, you need to start building in to taking things away from your pup especially treats/toys he considers high value. With Toby it's rawhide chew bones & with Roxy is deflated footballs (for some reason) & we have worked quite hard to get them to give up these 'prizes' but they do with no problems at all now
     
  16. LexiLou2

    LexiLou2 PetForums VIP

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    Lexi is a staffie and will give up all her food, chews etc and walk away from her bowl if you just go ah-ah. However give the dog a tennis ball and you have no chance, she will growl and guard that tennis ball with her life, so we use the swap method, but like Kilo she won't take a treat from me i have to put it on the flor and let her choose to pick it up. She is getting a lot better and will now leave a tennis ball pretty much on demand, but it has taken nearly a year to get to this point doing 10 minutes a day pretty much every day.
     
  17. 912142

    912142 PetForums VIP

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    Wooh - that's horrendous! My father always told me as a young girl never hit an animal because if they don't do what you want what will you do next! I have always treated my dogs/cats with respect and prefer to use my voice. There have been some very good responses on this thread - take time to read them - none of them suggest you should hit your pet.

    I have two Great Danes and this morning they have had two rather large marrow bones. Dexter is protective over his bone and gives his sister that 'don't even think about looking at my bone' look followed by a growl. Although he is protective over his bone I can go over and give him a rub and touch his bone or even if I had to take it away. He has learned through time the art of trust. You are 'top dog' in the household but you don't have to resort to abuse to prove it. Good on you for questioning those methods. :)
     
  18. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    Yes you should - I can take pigs ears, bones, chews, a bowl of food they are eating - ANYTHING from my dogs - aged from 8 years to 7 months - BUT - it takes time to build a relationship of trust.

    I gave you some tips on my earlier post - you cannot just expect it to happen - and potentially have created a problem that didn't exist before.

    Having said that - I would only ever take away a bone or a tasty treat from any of my gang if there was a very good reason for it - and that wouldn't be because I sudddenly decided half way through they had had enough for one day. a Pigs ear IS a particularly tasty treat.

    I don't know how old your puppy is - but DO NOT hit it under any circumstances unless you want to create a cycle of fear and aggression - every dog is different - some are strong strong characters who willingly put themselves in danger without realising it - and they need firmer handling yes - but not some of the things you allude to in your earlier post.

    In a puppy, you could create fear, fear aggression, food aggression, and end up creating a problem where one didn't exist.

    A puppy is NOT deliberately aggressive or 'violent' as you describe it - it is responding to a situation with it's canine instincts which you have to place a lot of tiime and effort in to getting him understand that if you want something from him, there's a reason for it, and that takes time.
     
  19. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    Ideally, you need to start by GIVING the dog things - when he is eating, add food to his bowl - so he realises that the hand is not a threat - then move towards taking this away.

    When taking something away from a pup - to start with, offer them an alternative - so if they have a toy - offer them another toy - and slowly - with adding bits of food - and seeing that things are not being 'taken away forever' you will start to build a relationship of trust with him.
     
  20. Cleo38

    Cleo38 PetForums VIP

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    That's what we did with our two using some extra special treat such as liver cake.

    With Roxy her high value things are certain toys (deflated football & a specific kong toy) so we worked on getting her to drop & exchange things of lesser value then built up to her most prized posessions!

    Toby has always been in love with his raw hide chews. He won't even eat them some days but will sleep on them, wake up give it a lick just to check it's still there :rolleyes: He was initally funny if the cats went near them but with time & training he is now fine if he gets to 'exchange'. We only take his chew from him if it gets to near bed time & he knows that he isn't allowed it when we all go to bed so giving it up isn't the problem it used to be.
     
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