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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello,

I am finding it hard to enjoy my puppy at the moment :(

I have a Rough Collie female who is nearly 16 weeks old and has been with us 6 weeks (I have had a puppy before, a number of years ago, he was a Cavalier King Charles and he trained quite easily and I attended training classes so I thought that at least I have done this before and know what to expect!).

I decided to get a Rough Collie as I grew up with one and always hoped to own another one day. I also thought they are intelligent and so many people say 'easy to train'. These are a few of the problems I am having:

1. Nipping-
I have tried bite inhibition training but not getting very far. Saying 'ouch' only excites her, offering a toy only lasts a second and she comes back to nip. I am now trying a firm 'No' and if she continues to use 'time out' It is extra difficult as I have a three year old son and although he is an active little boy, she sometimes constantly tries play biting him even if he is quietly sitting on the sofa.

2. House Training-
I take her out frequently, after eating, sleeping, playing etc (once an hour at least) staying with her, praising her/ treating her and she seems to know the command but we are still regularly having accidents in the house. After doing her business outside, I bring her in and after 10 -20 minutes she will wee inside (sometimes poo). I can not recognise any warning signs, she doesnt sniff/walk in circles/go to door/nudge or anything just sits down and messes. p.s she is clean at night.

3.Eating Poop-
I have had her on Burns Canine Extra food for three weeks now and since being on this food she has started eating her poops...urrrh...she also seems hungry all the time but has always been food motivated. I do not know whether this is just coincidental or down to her new food or a phase or a behaviour issue?

Apologies for the long thread but thought I knew what to expect and I am finding it difficult and not as enjoyable as I had experienced before :(

On a positive note, she already knows sit, stay and down commands and is not herding me as much as when we first brought her home so we have had some progress!

Any advice would be most appreciated to get me through this puppy stage!:crazy:
 

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As for the nipping how many chew toys does she have that she loves? I imagine nipping when people are still quiet is because of the teething process so things like ice cubes, frozen pro biotic yoghurt and things to soothe gums would be a good idea so she doesn't feel the urge so much.

As for eating poop I think most pups go through this phase, mine certainly did it for about a month and then promptly stopped. I would keep an eye on her weight gain and make sure her worming is up to date though. :)

As for toilet training I'm not sure what to recommend really but I'm sure someone else will have some good ideas.
 

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What do you do when she wees inside? Toilet training can be difficult - some sail through it, others just have no clue for ages. Just keep being consistant and she'll get there. I used a crate to help me when I couldn't keep an eagle eye on them and to "stretch" them to hold it a bit longer (done very gradually!).

Biting - time-outs have worked for me but it does take time and teething won't help. Also she may be biting more when she is tired- if either of my two did persistant biting like you describe I popped them in their crate for a nap!

Eating poo - never had that myself. I would just clear up poos immediately so she doesn't get chance to - hopefully that will break the habit before it sets in.

You aren't going to enjoy every minute of them being that age - it's hard work!! But you do get to the other side eventually and then you forget the pain and want another one. :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for replies!

She does have lots of toys that I rotate and I have just bought some puppy Antler chews to try and save our small utility that we use with a baby gate as a crate.

She is up to date with worming and vaccines as we joined a Puppy Scheme at our Vets.
 

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You haven't said that she does but if she wees in the utility room then it isn't small enough to help with toilet training the way a crate can.

What do you do when she goes inside? :)
 

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Hello,

I am finding it hard to enjoy my puppy at the moment :(

I have a Rough Collie female who is nearly 16 weeks old and has been with us 6 weeks (I have had a puppy before, a number of years ago, he was a Cavalier King Charles and he trained quite easily and I attended training classes so I thought that at least I have done this before and know what to expect!).

I decided to get a Rough Collie as I grew up with one and always hoped to own another one day. I also thought they are intelligent and so many people say 'easy to train'. These are a few of the problems I am having:

1. Nipping-
I have tried bite inhibition training but not getting very far. Saying 'ouch' only excites her, offering a toy only lasts a second and she comes back to nip. I am now trying a firm 'No' and if she continues to use 'time out' It is extra difficult as I have a three year old son and although he is an active little boy, she sometimes constantly tries play biting him even if he is quietly sitting on the sofa.

2. House Training-
I take her out frequently, after eating, sleeping, playing etc (once an hour at least) staying with her, praising her/ treating her and she seems to know the command but we are still regularly having accidents in the house. After doing her business outside, I bring her in and after 10 -20 minutes she will wee inside (sometimes poo). I can not recognise any warning signs, she doesnt sniff/walk in circles/go to door/nudge or anything just sits down and messes.

3.Eating Poop-
I have had her on Burns Canine Extra food for three weeks now and since being on this food she has started eating her poops...urrrh...she also seems hungry all the time but has always been food motivated. I do not know whether this is just coincidental or down to her new food or a phase or a behaviour issue?

Apologies for the long thread but thought I knew what to expect and I am finding it difficult and not as enjoyable as I had experienced before :(

On a positive note, she already knows sit, stay and down commands and is not herding me as much as when we first brought her home so we have had some progress!

Any advice would be most appreciated to get me through this puppy stage!:crazy:
NIPPING - Puppies chase and nip in the litter in play and to instigate play. So often they do it for attention and to instigate play or try to in humans. Over exciteability and over stimulation seems to make it worse too, another time they seem to get worse is also if they are overtired usually other bad behaviour and nipping starts more then too. Saying ouch or a high pitched yelp is dependant on learning bite inhibition in the litter, if they have learned it by biting too hard and making the pup they are biting yelps, then they usually stop, Mum often reprimands them too for biting and being over the top, so if its been learned they will usually stop if you give a high pitched yelp like a pup in pain, if they havent learnt it though it doesnt work, and some it just hypes them up and makes them do it even more. Puppies often treat little kids even more like siblings, in fact active kids and pups can just hype each other up even more. As they tend to run around, talk in high pitched voices and play at floor level and are at the pups level too.

If you have tried over things then I would work on the time out. You have to do it though at first sign of them getting hyper and whizzy, or first sign of getting mouthy, left too long and over exciteable and really into the behaviour
its harder still to get them to calm down. You also need to follow through enough thats often another common mistake, Just pop them out, leave them to calm down, let them out saying nothing and with no fuss, and continue to ignore her for another minute or too, nothing at all dont even look at her or make eye contact, only when you know shes got the message calmed down then call her to you get her to sit and then give a treat and attention. If it starts again first sign out again and be consistent keep reapeating it if you have too.

HOUSE TRAINING - Personally I would up the frequency in toilet trips, Ive found more frequently for shorter periods works better then infrequently for longer periods. Continue to use the cue word when she starts, an make sure she is completely finished before you praise and treat. Also take her out after drinking eating play and sleeping they usually need to go especially then as well. Dont tell her off for accidents it can make them less likely to go in front of you are more likely to sneak in/off and do it, also make sure you clean up with a special pet stain/odour remover as any smell left can encourage repeats in the same sort of areas. Sometimes you dont see the circling sniffing and scratching at the floor until later as they dont always realise they need to go or realise too late when younger, also if they are otherwise occupied in other things, it can distract them too.

EATING POOP. There are several theories why the eat poop, on is that certain foods have flavouring and enticing smells added, that pass out much the same as they went in making the poop more appealing. Other theories are that they are lacking certain minerals and vitamins or are hungry on certain foods, and lastly that its a form of boredom. So its possible if its co-incided with the new food it could well be that.

If some of her behaviour is due to, Boredom, attention seeking, over stimulation/hyper exciteability or over tiredness. Some pups will just keep going and going and need to be taught how to self amuse and relax.

Things that can help are giving them mentally and physically stimulating things to do to self amuse and wind down and get rest, also helpful if you 3 year old is hyper or fractious too and they might be winding each other up.

Start building into her routine periods of wind down and rest and self amusement. Baby or dog control gates (taller and more robust then a baby gate but fits the same) are a good way of confining without totally isolating them. Also gets them use to being alone too for when you go out and they have to be left.

Follwing is suggestions for wind down and self amusement activities giving mental stimulation and keeping her mouth otherwise occupied.

Kongs - You can use wet food or various fillings see recipes
Recipes - Kong

Kong Stuffing Recipes

Kong wobblers- these you can fill with kibble from her allowance
Wobbler Dog Toy | Dog food fillable toy for paced eating | Kong Co.

Busy Buddy twist and treat - again you can fill with Kibble or other things
Busy Buddy Twist-n-Treat - YouTube

Dog mazes are good too
Buster DogMaze - YouTube

Also having a good selection of long lasting chew type things is good
https://www.antlerdogchews.co.uk/easy-antler-dog-chew-medium

Also spending 10/15 minutes several times a day doing sessions of basic training mixed with a bit of play like chasing after a ball or toy, can physically and mentally wear them out, making them more likely to settle and not get up to mischief too.
 

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As far as your dog eating its poo and some of the behaviour, this review of the food you are feeding it might explain things:

Dog Food Reviews - Burns Canine Extra - Powered by ReviewPost

There are loads of theories on why dogs eat poo but the ones that make more sense to me in your situation is that the food passes through them too fast for them to extract the nutrients required so some gets left in the waste. The dog can still smell the food conten tin it so will consume it again. If the dog has always eaten its poo then you could go down the route that it is something it picked up from the mother as they will cnsume poo to keep things clean and clear any scent that could bring predators in (a flash back to the primevil days).

You say the dog has loads of toys that you rotate. I guess you rotate them because the dog gets botred of the ones out so a new toy will entertain it and occupy it even when you are not there. The best toy a dog has is you. Give a dog a toy, even a fancy pants squeky one, and the chances are it will be bored of it within 10-15mins. If you play with the toy with the dog the dog never gets bored. What this means to me is why leave toys out for a dog if it is just going to chew them and not interact with them? I keep all toys locked away in a cupboard and they only come out when I am doing training or we are having a play in the garden, other than that I want my house to be a non-play area and the dogs to wind down and realx so we don't play in the hosue. They have bones they can chew on as that is a dog's right but there are only three as I have three dogs. When I had one dog I had one bone for it to chew on.
I am not telling anyone how to live with their dogs, this is just something that works with my lot and all fo the dogs that have passed through too.

Now the nipping could be a puppy thing, a boredom thing, a frustration thing and many other things but I think it is the dog wanting to to engage play. At 16 weeks the dog has not long left its littermates and when littermates want to play they bite and nip until one of them chases and then they have a game on their hands. My suggestion would be do more frequent training sessions with the dog so use the adverts on TV as a reminder. At the quarter passed and quarter to advert breaks grab a toy (from the cupboard in my house) and take the dog to another room or outside if you want (anywhere other than the area you want the dog to be settled) and just some fun training, it doesn't have to be structured and regimented just allow the dog to make the game up a bit i.e. if you have a ball and the dog puts its paws on the ball then don't try and grab it from the dog, fuss the dog as it plays with the the ball. Once it takes its paws off the ball just bat it gently away from the dog, don't pick the ball up just roll it away and encourage the dog to chase and pounce on or bite the ball (this is the behaviour it has been displayign towards you and your son but this is a far more constructive way to redirect its impulses and urges).

Once the quick 5mins is over (programme back on) take the toy, praise the pup, walk away and put the toy away, ignore the pup, allow it get a drink and calm down for a minute and then invite it back in the lounge. When back in the lounge grab it's chew, walk over to an area away from you and the child and encourage the pup to come to you. Place the chew on the floor and wait for the pup to settle for a chewing session. As soon as it starts chewing give it a stroke and praise and then go sit down.
Putting the pup at a distance allows you time to interupt the pup if it decides it wants to come over for a chew and a play so your timing doesn't have to e amazing to begin with. After a while of watching your dog and observing it's body and actiosn you will pick up on the signs and be able to second guess it meaning your timing is like lightening.
Ad break again ask the pup to follow you and play again etc.

After a week or two you can mix it up so that you might do a play session on the hourly ads and then on the quarter passed ads but then not until the hourly ads again and then not until the quarter to ads. After a week of that you can just go for one ad break play per hour because not only are you teaching the dog that the games start when you start them and end when you end them but you are also teaching it to self-rely by extending the chewing, relaxing and sleeping time periods.
There is no harm at all in getting your son involved to be there during the play breaks and things because the dog can always think "well you've stopped playing , maybe you'll play?" and of course your son learns that the dog isn't to play in the lounge so everyone's a winner.
 

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Here are some articles on this subject by qualified, reputable trainers and behaviourists

The Bite Stops Here by Dr Ian Dunbar

http://cleverdogcompany.com/tl_files/factsheets/Puppy biting.pdf

http://www.apbc.org.uk/system/files...t_1_Puppies_-_Mouthing_and_biting_low_res.pdf

Puppy Play Biting Leads to Marks on Hands and Arms | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/teachingbiteinhibition.pdf

http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/Playbiting_000.pdf

DVD
Your Clever Dog: Puppy biting, chewing and over-excitability with children
Sarah Whitehead
All puppies bite! They come with a set of needlesharp teeth that a shark would be proud of. This behaviour is perfectly normal, but needs to be prevented in order for the dog to become a calm and social member of the family.
This DVD is specially designed to show you exactly what you need to do to reduce and then stop your puppy from biting and mouthing using only kind and fair methods, and the secrets that top dog trainers know.
This DVD also covers the essentials for making sure that your 'puppy chewing machine flexes his teeth on all the right things, and leaves your shoes, the kids' toys and your furniture alone.
Sarah Whitehead also gives advice on puppies and children, and how to ensure they grow up happily together.
Including:
• Why biting is an integral part of your puppy's development
• How to control your puppy's biting
• How to keep kids safe with your puppy
• How to play with your puppy to help control biting
The pack contains: A clicker, tab handle, training manual, instructional DVD, 55 mins approx running time including Bonus trick, Bonus Training Session, Intro to Clicker Training, Q & A with Sarah
Dogtrain.co.uk

House Training

http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/housetrainingyourpuppy.pdf
ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Housetraining Your Puppy
http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/Toilettraining_000.pdf
How to Potty Train Your Puppy the Clicker Way | Karen Pryor Clicker Training
Housetraining Basics | Karen Pryor Clicker Training
How to Train Your Puppy to Ring a Bell to Potty | Karen Pryor Clicker Training
http://www.cleverdogcompany.com/tl_files/factsheets/House training.pdf
http://www.ukrcb.org/fileitems/Toilet Training Your Pup.doc

DVD

House training - Your Clever Dog DVD Pack
House training should be easy, quick and stress-free! If your puppy or older dog hasn't yet got the hang of being clean in the house, or if you are just starting out on house training your puppy, this is the DVD for you.
Using kind, fair and effective methods, Sarah shows you how to house train your puppy to achieve great results in the fastest possible time.
Using an indoor pen or crate is a sanity-saver for most puppy owners. In this DVD, Sarah will show you how to train your puppy or dog to happily regard the crate as a comfy bed - to go in without a struggle and even to open the door himself!
Including:
• Get the basics of house training sorted in one weekend!
• What to do if your puppy messes in the house
• Why punishment doesn't work
• What to do if your puppy won't go to the toilet outside of your garden
The pack contains: A clicker, house line, training manual, instructional DVD: 55 mins approx running time including Bonus trick, Bonus Training Session, Intro to Clicker Training, Q & A with Sarah.

Dogtrain.co.uk
 

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Intelligent doesn't always mean easy to train. I've seen lots of people with intelligent dogs that would do much better with something a little less intelligent
Exactly. Itelligence is having a good mind for doing something and being able to pick things up easily but you will only get that out of a dog if you learn what makes it ticks and apply that to the training methods that will incorporate it's desires and urges.

You might be a genius but if your learning method is through doing the activity (kenesthetic I think) yet if you are only taught by reading about it then you will never fullfil your potential.

Only a fool applies the same methods to every individual which is why I can not abide by training classes where you ahve a GSD, a Collie, a Husky, a Lhasa, a Basset, a Springer and a Greyhound all in a line all being taught the same thing using the same method across the board. A waste of time and money in my eyes if you want to get the best out of your dog.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks to all who have replied!

I have a lot of advice to go forward with....

I have attended dog training classes in the past but I totally understand that breeds have different needs and approaches for training. Although I had a collie before, it was a long time ago (1970's) and I was young. I have many books on Puppy Care and Dog Training and books specifically about Rough Collies but there are so many conflicting methods and ideas on how to get the well behaved dog we all strive for.

It is a busy household here, six of us ranging from 3 years to 80 years, maybe I should have waited until my son was a little older but I thought it would be okay now he was no longer a baby or crawling and that is why I got a puppy. I was going to get an older rescue dog but after speaking to a number of Breeders who had older dogs for re-homing, they all recommended getting a puppy to adapt and grow up within our lifestyle.
 

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Oh I so remember the nippy stage with my rough I got so fed up one day with it I just turn round and yelled no right into his face wow a result. Not sure how to help with the toilet thing as when my boy was learning and he went to wee inside I just said no and pointed at the door. It took a bit of time to get all this across. Don't panic roughs are clever and a lot learn quicker by sign than words.
 

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Hi
You've had loads of advice on things to do, so I will keep this as short as I can. I just wanted to say our border collie did all the things that you described. In fact he is so good now, I had almost forgotten how all these things drove me mad. He used to launch himself at us (in play), hang off our clothes, pee everywhere in the house, and eat his own poop. Charlie was on the Hill's dry food and it wasn't until we started adding vegetables to it that he stopped eating it. Peeing in the house, he still does this sometimes but it was just disciplin on our part and if we had to take him out every 30 minutes that's what we had to do. The accidents happened due to us not being consistent. The nipping only stopped when he learnt the meaning of the word no. Now if I say no to anything he is obedient. He only learnt what no meant after an incident that involved him almost taking my husbands eye and and biting through his lip. They do come through it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks again for all the replies.....they gives me encouragement that we will get through this and it is just a difficult stage that will improve....fingers crossed! :p
 
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