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Outcross enigma

Discussion in 'Cat Breeding' started by lizward, Apr 8, 2011.


  1. lizward

    lizward PetForums VIP

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    These are four weeks old tomorrow. Has anyone any idea what they are? They are not exactly what I was expecting!

    27 days 3.jpg

    27 days 4.jpg

    Liz
     
  2. Petloversdigest

    Petloversdigest PetForums Senior

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    They are very sweet! Is that any help...(sorry couldn't help myself once I saw the pics...) ;)
     
  3. loz83

    loz83 PetForums Member

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    what were u expecting??? :)
     
  4. francescah

    francescah PetForums Member

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    I don't know but I really want one :lol:
     
  5. Gem16

    Gem16 PetForums VIP

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    who are the parents?
     
  6. Chez87

    Chez87 PetForums VIP

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    Not a clue!!
     
  7. lymorelynn

    lymorelynn UN Peacekeeper in training
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    Err .... kittens :confused: :p
    What were you expecting? They look a little like Tonks with colourpoints
     
  8. lizward

    lizward PetForums VIP

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    Well, they come from a mix of Burmese and Moggy which was a deliberate outcross programme I started two years ago. It seems that the moggy part has thrown something rather unexpected into the mix, namely Cs genes. But I'm not absolutely sure. Are there any Siamese / Tonkinese / Colourpoint breeders here?

    There are two others in the litter but they are just black, which was expected. I was hoping for a brown as in brown Burmese, but these are far too light for that.

    Liz
     
  9. lymorelynn

    lymorelynn UN Peacekeeper in training
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    coat colour looks blue or even lilac but the points are very dark for four weeks old. You seem to have a blue/lilac with seal/black points. Do you know anything about the moggy's parentage?
     
  10. lizward

    lizward PetForums VIP

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    Nothing at all, no. Now, Mum has to be CCb as she is black and her Mum is Burmese, so these can't possibly be CsCs, they could be CbCs though which would of course be darker than CsCs - but the contrast between their ears and their bodies is quite extreme isn't it. From the paw pads, I would think they were brown if they were Burmese so that translates to mink / seal doesn't it?

    Either that or I've discovered a new gene but I don't have that sort of luck!

    Liz
     
  11. lymorelynn

    lymorelynn UN Peacekeeper in training
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    Well, that would be exciting :D
    I think you can only see how they develop as the colourpoints can take a few weeks before coming through properly. It certainly seems very extreme at the moment. They look very cute though :)
     
  12. Marley boy

    Marley boy PetForums VIP

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    what is outcrossing about and why do you do it? Just interested to know :D
     
  13. Taylorbaby

    Taylorbaby PetForums VIP

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    its done normally at the beginning of a breed to make sure that you have a wide genepool, so its nice and healthy not alot of matings between mums/sons/etc

    I aws going to say burmese something!

    i know a tonk breeder do you want their details? have bred for many many many years!
     
  14. lizward

    lizward PetForums VIP

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    It's about crossing a pedigree cat to another breed (deliberately!), then for best effect you repeat the outcross, bring in as much as you can of the other breed early on before you then move on through the generations crossing only tothe breed you actually want. You end up with cats that look like the breed you started with but with some characteristic or other from the other breed. This is done to bring in new colours, or new coat lengths or textures, or simply to increase the gene pool which is my aim. Burmese are seriously inbred at the moment to the point where the average mating is equivalent to mating half siblings - imagine the effect when this goes on generation after generation after generation. Well, I have spent long enough bemoaning the situation so I decided to put my money where my mouth is.

    As an example of what can be done, recently I met a Burmese outcrossed with a ragdoll - the cat was 7/8 Burmese 1/8 ragdoll. She looked like a Burmese and would not have disgraced herself in a show ring, but she was very much bigger than any female you would see in shows today. Unfortunately since in her case the original mating was not deliberate, she was not registered.

    Liz
     
  15. lizward

    lizward PetForums VIP

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    Yes please - an email address would be great.

    Liz
     
  16. buffie

    buffie Mentored by Meeko

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    As some one who knows sod all about cat breeding. You outcross deliberately to another breed to increase the gene pool,I can just about see why you would feel that necessary ,but why would you outcross to a moggy when you know nothing about its history.
     
    hobbs2004 likes this.
  17. Gratch

    Gratch PetForums VIP

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    I assume she thoroughly health checked the moggie first and that the moggie itself isn't very likely to have any inherent issues, the beauty of being a moggie being that it's genetic history is also probably quite diverse. Also as someone that knows bugger all, I assume using a moggie is better than another pedigree as that increases possible health issues right off
     
  18. Marley boy

    Marley boy PetForums VIP

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    oh right i follow now. I didnt realise crosses could be registered? or is it futher down the line that kittens can be registered ie not first crosses, if that makes sense lol
     
  19. colliemerles

    colliemerles PetForums VIP

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    they do look like tonks, they are gorgeous, i bet they will look stunning when there points come through properly,,,gorgeous.:) i will take both of them thank you...:D,:D,
     
  20. Taylorbaby

    Taylorbaby PetForums VIP

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    they go on the reference register for 5 generations, so you have to keep a girl back then from that girl another girl & so on.

    some breeds are allowed outcrosses, for example the selkirk rex are allowed outcrosses to the british shorthair & persian.

    others just a example ragdolls/bengals/british dont need anymore outcrosses so not allowed anymore as the gene pool is big enough.
     
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