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One Show - KC statement

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by Irish Setter Gal, Sep 22, 2011.


  1. Irish Setter Gal

    Irish Setter Gal PetForums Senior

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    #1 Irish Setter Gal, Sep 22, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  2. Corinthian

    Corinthian PetForums Member

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    All organizations in every country should be more proactive in debunking the garbage that has been popularized by Millan. Kudos to the RSPCA they are getting a small donation for this, with a letter explaining why as to encourage further action.
     
  3. SleepyBones

    SleepyBones Banned

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    Wake up SB, acurracy of fact is needed yet again!

    Please guys, very, very please, get it right!

    It is not CMs dominance reduction and or pack theory, it is APDT founder John Fishers dominance reduction theory along with APBC founder John Rogersons dominant Alpha dog etc, the APBC books still on sale along and John Rogersons 'The Dominant Dog'.

    All CM did was jump on the commercial bandwagon of J Fisher & J Rogerson back around 1995 or around that period, he copied what already was not created it, the dominance theory & dominance reduction programms in their various forms are John Fishers baby.

    1. APDT John Fisher – “Dominance reduction program”
    Dog names, health, and news!: The Harmony Program - Energy Healing For Animals

    2. APBC Publication - John RogersonThe Dominant Dog
    Amazon.com: The Dominant Dog: John Rogerson: Video
     
  4. SleepyBones

    SleepyBones Banned

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    lol, another chance for KC to attempt to distract people from their own publicity - :D:D:D

    KC Reg Pedigree Dogs Exposed
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm17MesMFRc
     
    #4 SleepyBones, Sep 22, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  5. Irish Setter Gal

    Irish Setter Gal PetForums Senior

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    Hardly :arf: old hat that one :wink5:

    The second link sums it up - a extremely large volume of complaints caused the original comment thread on The One Show web page to be withdrawn, a lot of other complaints to the RSPCA over and I suppose the KC had no option but to pass comment.
     
  6. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    But doesn't CM get the blame for absolutely everything? :confused: Would have thought there were plenty of trainers using the dominance theory long before his time.

    Expect some on this forum don't go back that far! :eek:
     
  7. SleepyBones

    SleepyBones Banned

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    :thumbup:

    Oh they must do! many of the quotes they come up with on dominance I traced back to a book by the Monks Of Skeet circa around 1968-72 or that period, their quotes are used in a contempory context and re-usedmiss-used as CM quotes & methods, quote sources include by Rachel Casey Bristol Uni, or could it be shes trying to sell her commercial concepts against others.

    Just in case you've never heard of The Monks of Skeet, don't let that make you feel intellectualy canine illiterate cause no one else had heard of them either untless they did some research on 'contempory' quotes defining CM.

    I was around Kings Rd & Carnaby street then & of all my 'period' t-shirt slogan collections I cannot remember having one stating 'Long Live The Monks of Skeet', maybe they give them away at the Bristol uni freshers parties in conjunction with a second slogan option of 'Bless Friar Milan'.
     
    #7 SleepyBones, Sep 23, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
  8. Spellweaver

    Spellweaver PetForums VIP

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    Not sure why you have singled out the KC among all the other organisations whio have protested - but in doing so it makes it seem that you are attacking the KC over their statement. If you are not - apologies before I start. If you are, can you explain why?

    What is wrong with them saying they are concerned, do not agree with the methods, and have contacted The One Show about it? That is a good thing, surely? :confused: :confused:

    What is wrong with them pointing out that people who want to be assured they have a properly qualified trainer can go to someone who has learned under the scheme the KC funded and developed - the Kennel Club Accredited Instructor scheme - a scheme which has achieved City & Guilds recognition and as such is the only scheme in the UK to give an externally verified qualification to its members? Again, these are all good things, surely? :confused: :confused:

    The Kennel Club Accreditation Scheme for Instructors in Dog Training and Canine Behaviour | The Kennel Club


    Do you really have a problem with any of the above? Or are you just out for a bit of KC-bashing?
     
    #8 Spellweaver, Sep 23, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
  9. ClaireandDaisy

    ClaireandDaisy PetForums VIP

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    I think it`s excellent that so many organisations are acting to stop a young man who appears to have no qualifications and precious little experience - merely a connection to a TV producer and a personable face - blagging the public about something he knows nothing about.
    I think the young man concerned should go back to Music Theatre and the plonker who hired him should be demoted.
     
  10. SleepyBones

    SleepyBones Banned

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    No idea if its a good thing or not, first I heard was this post, all I know is an early poster said he was using what is the John Fisher & John Rogersons dominance theory, dominance reduction theory & their Alpha dog concept, I dont & cannot make an opinion on what I have not seen.

    1. APDT John Fisher – “Dominance reduction program”
    Dog names, health, and news!: The Harmony Program - Energy Healing For Animals

    2. APBC Publication - John RogersonThe Dominant Dog
    Amazon.com: The Dominant Dog: John Rogerson: Video
     
  11. SleepyBones

    SleepyBones Banned

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    Theres nothing else anyone can do with KC in a realistic perspective, their breeding standards are the greatest single welfare problem in UK, not just today, but ever. Pedigree dogs exposed is not a yesterdays story, its a todays story as hunderds, maybe thousands of pups with KC disease will be born this very day.

    Anyway, the RSPCA have more media means than me of getting that accross in a contempory context.

    Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: RSPCA slams Crufts coverage for "misleading the public"
     
  12. Barkie

    Barkie PetForums Senior

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    Ha ha some of us do go back that far and were training using a reward based method before we ever saw a book or tv programme about dog training. I just about remember seeing Barbara Woodhouse teaching the siT on tv as a kid.
     
  13. SleepyBones

    SleepyBones Banned

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    The first written record I have seen making it clear dogs should be trained with reward based methods is Conrad Most 1910.

    BUT, what contempory commercial trainers claim they use Skinners operant learning & therefor that meaning of reward, which is really either of the 2 operant reinforcements. So, they cannot use reinforcement based training methods, the mainly use negative punishment based methods but never 'reward' = reinforcement based methods.
     
  14. Spellweaver

    Spellweaver PetForums VIP

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    My my, you are ignorant of the things you try to post about, aren't you? Your first sentence - about "their" breeding standards - just shows you haven't a clue what you are on about, just repeating what has been said in the sensationalist media. The KC do not have breeding standards - breed clubs have breed standards which the KC may or may not adopt.

    As for pups being born with KC disease - what, do tell, is KC disease? :lol:

    As for quoting anything from the PDE blog and expecting anyone to take it seriously ......... :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I'm not going to enter into yet another :Yawn::Yawn: argument about PDE - there are several threads on here already about that, and it's not fair on the OP that you are trying to make this yet another one. So, back to the original subject in the vain hope that you can actually think for yourself instead of mindlessly repeating sensationalist media drivel.

    In this latest controversy about the dog trainer on The One Show, what argument do you have against the KC's statement? This organisation that you are so intent on bashing has complained about the trainer and training methods. This organisation that you are so intent on bashing has founded and funded the ONLY externally accredited dog trainer training course - and a City & Guilds one at that. What arguments do you have against any of that?

    Perhaps you should learn about what the KC actually do instead of thinking you know it all because you saw it on TV. :rolleyes:


    ETA - if you really want to learn about what breed standards are and what they do, I suggest you read this excellent thread on here:
    http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-chat/191673-breed-standards.html
     
    #14 Spellweaver, Sep 23, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
  15. ClaireandDaisy

    ClaireandDaisy PetForums VIP

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    I see the hijackers are out....
    The Dogs Today blog was very revealing. Especially the link between the `trainer` and a TV producer.
     
  16. NicoleW

    NicoleW PetForums VIP

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    Congratulations The One Show and the BBC! I have just come back from the vets to pick up medicated shampoo for my dog. A lady has just had her dog put to sleep due to copying what she saw on this show last Friday! The dog had never snarled or bitten, but she has a Grandchild and the dog grumbled a couple of weeks ago when her husband walked past it whilst it was a chewing a bone. They tried the method Saturday, the dog bit her Grandchild last night, thankfully it was not bad but they felt they couldn't trust the dog. There was no food involved. That is one dog you have murdered, one child you have hurt and one elderly couple that now feel they could never have a dog. How many more will there be?



    Was a comment from the blog, how awful
     
  17. Spellweaver

    Spellweaver PetForums VIP

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    I agree. It's absolutely dreadful. But sadly, some people believe everything they see on TV to be the truth. The BBC must be aware of this - sigh, I remember a time when the BBC were responsible enough to vet programs so that wrong information was not given out in this way - but in the last few years those standards have plummeted. :(
     
  18. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    I thought the KC had to endorse club standards too, or at least that's what I read in DT mag. Looking to see what edition which could take forever as i've loads!
     
  19. Cockerpoo lover

    Cockerpoo lover PetForums VIP

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    OMG how awful :(:(

    That's the trouble with showing things concerning dog training on TV when you only see a small tiny segment rather than the whole picture leading up to the problem. People will copy despite any warnings issued not to.

    Also if there is something shown that doesn't involve a long drawn out process or money then people are more than willing to try this quick fix solution.

    I said the other day I personally would like to see one problem done in depth with a before, middle and end and then follow-up but not just one dog- but a variety. This hopefully would include a synopsis of the dogs history etc........ and whilst portraying that training can overcome most problems that it is not a quick fix but requires time and effort.

    A lot of these programmes that have a training segment allocated are going to show the quickest problem as they can not dedicate the time- so the downside will be people copying and hoping to achieve the same results and we then can end up with more of the sad scenarios above :(
     
    Spellweaver likes this.
  20. SleepyBones

    SleepyBones Banned

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    Oh theres an abundance of dog varieties in the international award winning documentary, many will have been born this morning with a guarunteed futor of pain & suffering from KC hereditory disorder, more than a wish to Aladdin would get for ya.

    The full pedigree dogs exposed
    Pedigree Dogs Exposed Full Movie - YouTube
     
    #20 SleepyBones, Sep 23, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
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