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One rule for us

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Happy Paws2, May 23, 2020.


  1. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    To me that's one of those non-issues I posted about earlier in the thread.
    There's a difference between "I'm scared to refer to any racial minority for fear of getting backlash on social media" and "If I make a mistake please tell me because I'm trying to be teachable and I know I still have a lot to learn."
    The latter opens the conversation up, you can ask why this term or that term, and learn more about a culture you may not be familiar with.
    Like why someone who's Puerto Rican might make a point of clarifying that along with being Black. Because being a Black person from Detroit is a very different vibe than being a Black person from Puerto Rico. Though both are technically also "American."
    BTW, even American is an intersting label. When people say American, often it means from the USA, yet there are multiple other countries in the Americas.
    As above, I think if you come from a place of willingness to learn, the vast majority of people are very happy to have a conversation about it. Social Media makes it feel like everyone is constantly offended about terminolity, but in real life, across multiple cultures and languages, I've never found it to be an issue.
     
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  2. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    It is worrying that people are being sacked for saying the ‘wrong’ thing on social media, or in interviews, or having said the ‘wrong’ thing 20 years ago. :(

    I’m uncomfortable with others trying to police my language and saying I have to educate myself and learn. How about they ask me what I mean, instead of my pussy footing around, treading on eggshells so I don’t offend someone.

    My neighbour’s 10 year old was told by his teacher that he wasn’t a boy and mustn’t say it, because it’s not inclusive. He was really upset about it, saying to his dad “I am a boy!” They’re doing away with boy, girl, woman, man, at school, because those words exclude transgender apparently. You have to say cisgender. cisgender male from what I could gather from his parent, he seemed really confused and quite upset and angry about it. By the time he goes back, he’ll have been told his white mother is racist too I expect. :(

    I’m getting too old for this, it just feels wrong on so many levels and so different from what we used to be told about being encouraging and positive. What happened to motivational speaking? This new effort makes me want to just stay indoors and close the curtains.
     
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  3. Cleo38

    Cleo38 PetForums VIP

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    [Q

    WTF???!! So are human biology lessons going to be some sort of made up sh*t now then as obviously anatomy will be far too controversial now to be taught …. :rolleyes:
     
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  4. mrs phas

    mrs phas karma is a funny old thing

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    Can you imagine how sex ed will be taught?
     
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  5. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    This is a separate issue though. Freedom of speech is one thing. Asking for repect in nomenclature is another. And again, I submit that social media isn't 'real' as far as every day interactions with fellow humans.
    In the real world if I say black and the person prefers to be identified as Puerto Rican, there is a conversation, and I can choose to honor the request or not. No more complicated than that.
    If I'm going on social media talking about my n***as and my boss takes issue with that, that's between me and my boss and the black community is not responsible for whatever action my boss decides to take.

    Not saying it doesn't happen, but I think this fear of being judged is slighly overstated. Media likes to sensationalize things to make it look like a problem that's really not. IME no one has ever been outright angry with me for saying Black instead of African American or vice versa. I spend a lot of time in multicultural communities and these issues that show up in the news and all over social media just aren't my esperience at all. No one is walking around waiting for you to mess up and call you on it.
    And honestly Elles, if you don't want to change anything, you don't have to. I know old folks in my community who still say 'colored' not maliciously, they're just set in their ways. No one cares, not the white folks, not the black folks. It is what it is. So you do you, and if that offends someone, so be it. However if you do want to have a conversation about what terms to use and why someone might prefer one or the other, again, IME most minorities are very happy to have that conversation.

    I think when we reduce the conversation down to what terms should I use, we're missing the bigger picture which is a much bigger conversation on race and incusivity and respecting minority groups, and awareness....

    And not for nothing, at least here in the US, minorities, particularly blacks, have had to walk on eggshells or be killed. So a little discomfort around terminology is not exactly a hardship I have a whole lot of sympathy for :)
     
  6. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    In some countries gays, women and girls are killed too, if they don’t toe the line, in some even men are. In the U.K. we don’t tend to get killed. I don’t have discomfort around terminology, that’s the other lot, who insist on specific words being used and change them with the weather. I’m uncomfortable with their telling me what I can and cannot say and getting people sacked, and/or thrown off social media if they don’t get with the latest thing. :(
     
  7. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    I could hardly believe it myself. We only just found out (as in us locals) because they opened the local clubhouse now the lockdown is easing and our neighbours were talking about it. We don’t have school age kids, I thought all the more controversial stuff was pretty much London way, not down here and no idea it was going so far.
     
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  8. kimthecat

    kimthecat PetForums VIP

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    Sadly there are honour killings in the UK and many young women taken abroad and forced to marry . :(
     
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  9. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    True. They don’t tend to be British and ensconced in British culture though. British culture doesn’t include honour killings and child brides. In America you can be as American as the flag and still get shot for looking ‘wrong’ to some bigot it seems, so a part of American culture that they’re trying to change.
     
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  10. Cleo38

    Cleo38 PetForums VIP

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    And now we seem to have 'Karen' shaming which although may seem harmless IMO is just another form of misogyny. There may have been instances where middle aged white women were inappropriate, etc but there have been numerous videos now on social media & some are horrible. One showed a black man hounding a poor, sobbing white woman who he deemed had cut him up whilst driving (maybe he thought there was a racial element to it, I don't know). He was telling her how he was posting it online along with her address, her car reg, etc … it was awful :(
     
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  11. kimthecat

    kimthecat PetForums VIP

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    @Cleo38 Did you see the bbc podcast with the two patronising white girls explaining how not to be a karen? I understand the bbc removed it. The term now seems on a level with terf.
     
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  12. Cleo38

    Cleo38 PetForums VIP

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    Unfortunately I didn't but was reading about it …. two posh privileged women laughing at those who weren't so much I believe?

    But then I think this culture has been encouraged. I said on another thread that I felt Jeremy Kyle shows (& the like) were basically "Let's Laugh At Poor White People" … it wouldn't have been allowed if those people had been from another ethnic group. But then I think there is a class issue as well.
     
  13. Calvine

    Calvine PetForums VIP

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    I'm talking about in general, not just when you are in conversation with someone who is black, or ''of colour''.
     
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  14. Calvine

    Calvine PetForums VIP

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    Yes, a friend of mine in Wimbledon said they got a local residents' newsletter suggesting that all the residents of xxx Road should a) go out at a certain time and kneel and b) be sure to have a rainbow in their window. I'm not aware that they were ''shamed'' if they didn't but even telling everyone that they should consider doing it is quite shocking in my opinion. Householders are adults and old enough to decide for themselves if they want to. It just smacks of virtue signalling.
     
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  15. StormyThai

    StormyThai Moderator
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    Neither I or Leclerc stated that he had to explain why he didn't take the knee...nor did F! or anyone else tbh.

    I just said that I liked the reasons that he gave and that he gave them before the event so that it became a non issue -shrugs-


    I don't see anyone "forced" to explain why they don't follow something...but different people see different things I guess.
     
  16. havoc

    havoc PetForums VIP

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    Not overtly maybe but people are judgemental, each according to their own stance. If it stifles discussion that’s a bad thing.
     
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  17. Calvine

    Calvine PetForums VIP

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    Terf? You lost me there!
     
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  18. mrs phas

    mrs phas karma is a funny old thing

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    i didnt mention anyone, i quoted your post as it happened to mention people explaining reasons
    but
    i was quite obviously speaking, in general terms, about the widespread expectations of others to know reasons for everything
    My apologies if you thought i was aiming at you
    I will try harder to make sure i couch my posts in even more general terms in future, making sure i use gender neutral terms ( thats referring to another post, menting gender identifying, not anything youve said, just so your sure )
    to make sure things stay on discussion terms,
    rather than anyone taking offense where non is meant
     
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  19. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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  20. Cleo38

    Cleo38 PetForums VIP

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