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Night time sleeping for a puppy

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by bobby the bichon doggy, Apr 27, 2011.


  1. bobby the bichon doggy

    bobby the bichon doggy PetForums Newbie

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    We have had our Bichon for 5 nights and got him at eight weeks old. On the first day our 12 year old daughter was not home and it was just my wife and me at home. Things seemed to go well, he accepted his crate and was happy enough walking in and out of it and even had a little nap in there. We put him down for bed time at 9pm after a toilet. His crate is in the kitchen in a pen, we left the door to the crate open and a pad and bowl of water for him. He didn't do too bad first night, barked for about an hour and then again for about 30mins at 4am then at 6am when we got up to him. He had toileted on the pad. We have stuck to the same routine every night however he is sleeping worse now than before. Last night he barked and cried for about an hour then three or four times during the night. And was awake at 5.30am, he is very clingy first thing and is becoming increasingly hard to leave even for a few seconds.
    Are we being too soft on him during the day? Is this lenght of time normal? Are we expecting too much too early?
    I don't want to have to move him upstairs or be getting up in the night. I have read so many sites and books and they are all so conflicting in opions!
    What next?
     
    #1 bobby the bichon doggy, Apr 27, 2011
    Last edited: May 4, 2011
  2. SixStar

    SixStar Banned

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    9am until 6am is a very long time for a puppy to be alone, can you put him to bed later, say 11pm? That'd be more reasonable. Also I'd be getting up in the night every 3 hrs to take him outside to the toilet, pads/newspaper just confuse them, you're best off getting them to go outside from the get go. Why don't you want to be getting up in the night? That's what you need to do with a pup - they're like babies and disturbed sleep is a sacrifice you should be making I'm afraid.

    In regards to the whinging/crying when left you need to slowly build up the time you leave him so he realises you will return! Start off shutting him alone in a room for one minute and then when you go back praise him like mad (if he barks then leave him until he is quiet), do this several times a day and up the time left each day by a minute or so. Puppies need to be introduced to the idea that they must sometimes be alone, but that's ok, otherwise you'll be setting them up for separation aniexty problems in later life. Crying/whinging in the night can be ignored so long as the pup is physically ok - ie, has water, isn't hungry, too hot/too cold, has a dull light & quiet radio on and doesn't need the loo.

    Stick at it, pups are hard work but so very worth it :) congrats on the new addition
     
  3. bobby the bichon doggy

    bobby the bichon doggy PetForums Newbie

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    Thanks for the prompt reply. We tried 10.30pm last night but he still cried for about an hour before settling. And then was up at 5.30am. I understand what you say about confusing him with toiletting especially, as bar one accident, he goes in the garden except at night. My worry is that if i get up in the night (which I don't mind doing) will it take an hour to settle him again. And then will he expect that to continue. I f i do get up in the night is that at my time or when he wakes?
     
  4. Dogless

    Dogless PetForums VIP

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    Set yourself a schedule, I started getting up twice in the night for the first week, once for the second and, from then on, if Kilo made any noise as I realised in our case that I was actually waking him up to toilet. Just judge it by your own particular pup.

    I made sure my pup knew that it was toilet time, not play or cuddle time so I used to take him out of the crate without any interaction at all, put his lead on and take him into the garden. When he started to go to the toilet I used my cue words 'be quick' and praised like mad. Then all interaction stopped again; I led him back into his crate, shut the door and went back to bed. If he tried to initiate any play or gain my attention any other way I used to ignore it. He was sleeping right through by the end of the second week but yours may be faster or slower.
     
  5. bobby the bichon doggy

    bobby the bichon doggy PetForums Newbie

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    So here's how last night went......
    Fed at 8.30pm, he was hungry and ate the lot. Run around and play both before and after. 9.30pm calm time grooming and eye cleaning, then he lay on the floor dozing. Toiletted at 10pm and into crate with door open inside closed pen. Shut kitchen door and barked for 45mins before settling. I got up at 01.45am he was still quiet and though awake when i opened the kitchen door i think he had been asleep, toiletted and he went then straight back in to crate with no fuss. Again though he barked for 30-45 mins before settling. He then started barking at 04.20am, i got straight up took him out for toiletting nothing! No fuss back to crate where he again barked for about 30mins before settlling. He then barked again at about 5.30am which we ignored and lasted about 15mins. He then barked again at 6.45am and we got up, he was again very clingy.
    I can handle getting up in the night it's the inability to leave him without 30mins of non stop barking that concerns me. I work shifts and have taken time off to settle him but soon I wll be getting home between midnight and 3am, how do I deal with this? I assumed a quick toilet and then back to bed but it's the barking for so long that waking everyone and keeping them awake. I know this is early days and it takes time but any extra advice or reassurance that we ARE doing it right is needed!!!!
     
  6. emmaluggs

    emmaluggs PetForums Junior

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    Take a breath! I've had a Molly now for 6 weeks she was 7 weeks when we got her. The first 5 days I thought I made a huge mistake with the barking and sleepless nights, it very overwhelming.

    You need to make a decsion whether or not you going to use pads or not. If your leaving the crate door open and a pad there is no point in getting up, if you aren't going to use pads you need to be shutting the crate and setting your alarm.

    The first night I shut Molly in her crate she went straight to sleep but woke at 4am and howled and howled when I heard the neighbours get up I decided to get up! I then decided to camp downstairs with Molly, I set up the airbed and slept next to her crate for the first 5 nights, as soon as I heard her stir I got up and took her outside no fuss no talking no eye contact and straight back in the crate, she whined a bit when I put her back but after 5 mins there was a huff and back to sleep. Once I moved back upstairs I set my alarm for 1am and 4am then I stopped the 1am one after 2 weeks and went to just 4am. Now forthe last week we have no alarm and she wakes up between 6-7 depending on what time we go to bed which is her last toilet break.

    I think you need to work on getting him used to being by himself and making his crate into a den, cover it in a blanket, throw treats in there and put his meals in there.

    It will take time and perserverance but you will get there every pup is different and will take things and different paces, but it will get better!

    Oh and one more thing take his water up 1-2 hours before bedtime, if he's a healthy pup this won't be a problem and then he won't tank up before bedtime.
     
  7. vicki.burns

    vicki.burns PetForums Senior

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    People will absolutely slate me for this but this was our way that we did it.

    We didn't want to use a crate and for the first week or so we had Linc downstairs on his bed, a few nights he was brilliant, the rest he was a nightmare, we have a semi-detached house and it is a really old, what used to be council house in Herts, it was built in the 1920's and the joining wall to our neighbours is really thin.

    Thin to the point that you can hear next door calling up and down stairs to eachother what they want for dinner, dinner's ready, mums going to work... everything.

    So at 3am, 4am, 5am, when you've got a pup with a cry as loud as an Opera Singer at the Royal Albert it's not ideal.

    We always said that eventually we would let him sleep up stairs but wanted him to be good with his toilets before we did this, but with his crying this wasn't an option. There's only so much ignoring you can do to be honest, especially before the neighbours get majorly p.ssed with you.

    At this point we decided we would let him upstairs in our room, this was the best thing we did. He slept on his bed beside ours, we always go to bed about 11pm and for the first 2 weeks he was waking at about 3am or 4am to go to the toilet and he would just sit beside our bed and cry until we woke to let him out. I think there were two or three accidents but that is it.

    He is now still sleeping on his bed and sleeping through until about 7.30-8am when he wakes up and needs a toilet.
     
  8. bobby the bichon doggy

    bobby the bichon doggy PetForums Newbie

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    WOW,night seven. Followed the same routine as previouse nights. Toiletted and crated at 9.45pm by my wife, not a single bark or whimper. I got home from work just after midnight, walked into the kitchen and he was sat quietly wagging his tail in the pen. Toiletted with no fuss or talking and put back to bed, barked on/off for about 10mins then slept right through to 6.10am.
    This is great and can't believe we have HOPEFULLY got there. I finish earlier this evening so plan to set the alarm for 2am and toilet him and hope for the best!
     
  9. emmaluggs

    emmaluggs PetForums Junior

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    Sounds like he's finally settling in :)
     
  10. bobby the bichon doggy

    bobby the bichon doggy PetForums Newbie

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    :smile::):) Jumping for joy!! For two nights we have had completely undisturbed sleep!! Night 8 put in crate at 9.30pm not a sound from him, I got home from work at 1230am took him straight out for toilet he had a wee then back to crate barked for maybe 5 mins on and off then right through till 6.15am, night 9 as usual crate at 9.30pm barked for a minute or two then not a peep till he woke at 6.30pm. Traing pad was wet after a big wee but that's what it's there for and not a problem, soooooo pleased with him!!!:):)
     
  11. Dogless

    Dogless PetForums VIP

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    Brilliant!!!!:).
     
  12. Jazzy

    Jazzy PetForums VIP

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    Yes that's the way we did it with our youngest Bichon. She slept in my teenage daughters bedroom and we put a pad down on the rug beside the bed and she either used that or if she cried my daughter got up with her and took her out in the garden. It worked and she is 2 years old now, always clean in the house

    She was 10 weeks when we got her though. I did it the other way with my oldest Bichon who is now seven. I left him in the kitchen with a crate and the door open and just cleaned up the mess when I got up in the morning from what I remember. He slept in the kitchen for 12 months as I was adamant he wasn't coming upstairs, but at 12 months started howling and rattling the baby gate that I had up between the kitchen and living room. I stood it for about a week or two and then gave in and now he sleeps at the side of my bed in his bed or on the floor whichever he chooses. :rolleyes: :laugh:

    Through the day they were taken out after food and sleep etc although my male dog took longer to housetrain than my female dog - think he was about 8 months when he was finally housetrained and she was around 5 months.
     
  13. bobby the bichon doggy

    bobby the bichon doggy PetForums Newbie

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    Well the night time sleeps are now (fingers crossed) sorted, he's going to sleep in his crate at 9.30pm after feeding at 8.15pm and a good play followed by grooming and settle time, sleeps through till 5ish with a bark for 5-10 mins then settle again till 6.30am though last night was right through till 6.15am, loving this it's real good news.
    Next stage,
    Bobby has a crate inside a pen, he sleeps in there during the day and often walks in of his own accord so we know he is more than happy in there. I now have the problem that when i am at home i can't pen him while i get on with jobs without him barking for at least ten minutes, he'll then settle but if i have to go back in that room for any reason and leave it starts all over again. I have tried big praise when going back in and he is quiet and have tried ignoring him for a minute or two till he is quiet. Though i was careful not to do these at the same time to avoid confusion, is this just like his sleep and will need perserverance or are their any good tips i've missed?
     
    #13 bobby the bichon doggy, May 4, 2011
    Last edited: May 4, 2011
  14. Dogless

    Dogless PetForums VIP

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    Sounds like you are making great progress; maybe try something like a Kong in the day whilst you are in and out, I suspect it may just need perseverance though. Hopefully someone with experience of this will be along with some good advice as I am lucky enough that Kilo has never made a noise when crated. (Not being smug BTW...I have had plenty of other battles!!).
     
  15. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    [QUOT


    E=bobby the bichon doggy;2419231]We have had our Bichon for 5 nights and got him at eight weeks old. On the first day our 12 year old daughter was not home and it was just my wife and me at home. Things seemed to go well, he accepted his crate and was happy enough walking in and out of it and even had a little nap in there. We put him down for bed time at 9pm after a toilet. His crate is in the kitchen in a pen, we left the door to the crate open and a pad and bowl of water for him. He didn't do too bad first night, barked for about an hour and then again for about 30mins at 4am then at 6am when we got up to him. He had toileted on the pad. We have stuck to the same routine every night however he is sleeping worse now than before. Last night he barked and cried for about an hour then three or four times during the night. And was awake at 5.30am, he is very clingy first thing and is becoming increasingly hard to leave even for a few seconds.
    Are we being too soft on him during the day? Is this lenght of time normal? Are we expecting too much too early?[/QUOTE]

    Its a really big upheaval for a pup, leaving mum and litter mates and suddently finding himself in a totally strange place and on his own. The first night he was probably so exhausted with it all that might be why he slept better.

    He probably will need to toilet in the night initially, mine did, the idea of a crate is that the dog wont soil its bed or surrounding area, they are naturally clean animals, maybe its a mixture of distress because its early days and the need to toilet. The more distressed he gets the more he will cry.

    You could try, putting a radio down low on a talking station, putting a soft toy in his bed and leaving a t shirt or jumper you have worn in his bed as your smell can comfort them. (As long as he wont rip and eat the fabric)
    DAP diffusers can help its an artificial version of the pheromone mum emits to calm and sooth the pups.

    Personally I never used training pads, instead putting mine out regularly and praising and treating when they performed outside. Pads and newspaper can just confuse them, giving the message its ok to go in the house, so makes toilet training take longer. With mine I actually slept downstairs for the first couple of weeks and took mine out when they woke or stirred. They dont need to go toilet at night forever, once their capacity to hold themselves for longer increases, then they can go longer and longer between toilet breaks.
    You could set an alarm and take him out a couple of times, in case he is crying because he wants to toilet. Or just go down pop him out when he cries making no fuss, putting him straight in again. If he stops then you will know if its because he needs to toilet. Its a bit of work at first but usually pays off with getting them toilet trained a lot quicker, as it gives the one and only message that outside is the correct place. If he is trying to be clean and tell you, and you ignore it, it could well backfire because he wont bother in the end, again maing toilet training harder.
     
  16. bobby the bichon doggy

    bobby the bichon doggy PetForums Newbie

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    I notice this has had a lot of readers so i thought I would just give a quick update. Bobby now gets fed at 8.15pm, play and settle till he goes to bed at 9.30pm after a toileting, in fact last night he actualy ran into his crate himself and is now sleeping right through till 6.45am.
    It looks as if our perserverance paid off by sticking to the same routine and not giving in to him, took a while but well worth it.
    Hope this helps anyone else in the same position.
     
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