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Newbie Puppy Problems - help please! Pt 2

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by 600andy, Oct 28, 2013.


  1. 600andy

    600andy PetForums Junior

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    Hi again all,

    Sorry, I once again crave your valuable advice please.

    First and foremost, the feed thing is now well & truly sorted, and we are nearly fully toilet trained - nearly! Again, thank you all for your help & advice.

    The final challenge will have, I have no doubt, no easy fix, but thought I would ask anyway.

    Every night, before my Wife & I retire, Muffin goes out, has a poop & a whiz, and then we settle him down, in his bed in the kitchen, radio on & small light on. Every night in the last week, after 10-20 mins, he wakes, and he howls & howls, barks and scatches at the kitchen door. We usually let him go a while in the hope he will stop, and and when he doesnt, so that I can get some sleep and to avoid waking up the Children, one who is 8, and the other who is 18 and working, my Wife goes downstairs to him, and ends up sleeping on the sofa, with Muffin beside her in his basket.

    This has happened every night for a week, and is unsustainable.

    We are trying to avoid bringing him into the bedroom to sleep as most of the people we know who have had the same problem have said they wished they hadnt.

    So, whilst I fully understand and accept he is a baby, and will need some company from his "Pack" makeup, coupled with the fact he will and does need to go to the toilet in the night, how do we go about getting him to settle down - and when is this likely to be possible? He is now 5 months old.

    Many thanks.
     
    #1 600andy, Oct 28, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  2. Hanwombat

    Hanwombat I ♥ dogs with eyebrows !!

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    I'm about to pop home to see my puppy for my lunch so I shall make this quick.

    Does he have the kitchen to roam at night ? I'd personally get a crate and get him crate trained as they feel so much safer in there than being in a big scary room on their own.

    Secondly, I know when they cry and howl and cry and howl it can be very frustrating BUT you have to hold it out and ignore the dog. By opening the door when he cries he has won! and the more you do it the more he will cry and howl because he now knows that by doing this he gets your attention and you will go and see him.

    You have to stop your wife from falling asleep on the sofa with him beside him.

    I crate trained my puppy as soon as we got her at 8 weeks old. She is now fifteen weeks old and as soon as she goes in her crate at night I don't hear a peep out of her until the following morning.
     
  3. Horselover503

    Horselover503 PetForums Newbie

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    Does he do this in the day if. Everyone goes upstairs? If so it is most likely separation anxiety. If so show him you won't be gone forever and go up come down, go up come down. Repeatedly do this for longer periods of time until he settles. Remember the treats though. If he doesn't do the same thing in the day then the only advice I have is to tire him out before he goes to sleep and give hi a little toy to chew for a while before you go up.
     
  4. Sarah1983

    Sarah1983 PetForums VIP

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    Is he crate trained? I personally would start having him in a crate in the bedroom where he can be near you. Gradually over time I would start moving the crate towards the door and finally out of the bedroom. My dog sleeps in my bedroom and I have no problems with it but I know not everyone wants the dog in the bedroom which is fair enough. Start as you mean to go on is not always the best way though and leaving a distressed puppy to cry can lead to problems in the future.

    All you're teaching him by going to him when he's crying and scratching at the door is that that is how to get you to go to him.

    Oddly enough, was reading this just before opening this thread
    How puppies become anxious ‘home alone’ dogs | Reigning Cats and Dogs
     
  5. Pezant

    Pezant PetForums VIP

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    Yes, definitely agree with this. He's like a toddler - he'll keep making noise until he gets the attention that he wants, and by going downstairs to see to him, your wife is just making it worse. He won't get over it by being given what he's demanding - even if you draw it out until the very last minute before going down, he's still getting what he's asking for. You really do have to grit your teeth and bear it, I'm afraid. Just for a few nights at least, and he will get the hang of it.
     
  6. foursmith

    foursmith PetForums Senior

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    I am sorry I am no help we had this and elvis sleeps upstairs with us now tbh I prefer it I know where he is and what he's up to...these days he won't get up til I do which is usually early but if I do want a lie in its not an issue.i definitely prefer having him upstairs with us but also part of that is cos hes left a few hours mon to fri cos we work so I don't want to leave him alone all night too.
    Hope you get it sorted I would assume as with kids consistency is the answer
     
  7. BeauNoir

    BeauNoir PetForums VIP

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    I would recommend a crate, personally I would also half cover it so there is a 'cave' side and a open side where they can look out. Putting on a nightlight rather than full darkness may also help.

    Crate training can take a while but stick at it. Your wife can no longer go down and stay with the puppy all night, because then the pup learns howling gets the people back and will do it more.

    I'd also check your kitchen isn't cold/drafty, sometimes Pixie will get a whinge on and just like a baby we check for poop/pee, warmth, etc. :rolleyes:

    Mine do sleep in our room with us, Pixie is crated and we have no issues with it, she can't jump up or get hold of anything and we never hear a peep out of her. :D
     
  8. 600andy

    600andy PetForums Junior

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    Yes, pretty much whenever he is left alone, even if only for a few minutes......generally, he isnt left alone much at all during the day, but there are times when we have to for a short time. If my wife goes out for any period during the day, a neighbour calls round to be with him. Night times are the longest - and when we first got him, he was OK - in fact we were amazed how he would go all through the night, without even any accidents.
     
  9. 600andy

    600andy PetForums Junior

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    Yea, thats what we thought, but "seperation anxiety" keeps popping up at teh back of our minds - indeed, you will read the mixed reponses to this thread, so it is a tough call. If we thought it would help, we would let him cry, as we did with our Children, but we want to avoid creating any anxiety issues if we can. I knew there wowuld ne no easy answer/fix to this!

    Seems were damned if we do, and damned if we dont! :crying:
     
  10. Sarah1983

    Sarah1983 PetForums VIP

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    If he's doing it whenever alone then he really needs to learn that being alone is actually okay, not just have his distress ignored at night time There is a sticky on dealing with separation anxiety over in the training and behaviour section :)
     
  11. 600andy

    600andy PetForums Junior

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    But does he ever soil your bedroom?
     
  12. Wiz201

    Wiz201 PetForums VIP

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    My mum has been dealing with Teddy at night by crate training him - we had a crate from day 1 and now he's got it open with some puppy pen panels around it so he can be put in there when no one is around to watch him. When I looked after him for two days this weekend I put him in there when he was clearly getting hyper and overtired, walked away without speaking into the living room and he only fussed for five minutes until he went to sleep choosing to sleep in the crate. My mum does this on a night routine too - he gets a good play session, toileted, then gets put to bed in the crate, and after fussing for five minutes he seems to know its bed time and goes to sleep. He does wake up early but he has a puppy pad area to go to if he's desperate. She's been doing the ignoring routine and so far its working.
     
  13. BeauNoir

    BeauNoir PetForums VIP

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    If they are crated and in your bedroom, if anything did happen then it is in the crate, throw the blankets in the wash, wipe down the plastic bottom, no problems and none on the carpet so no smell if anything does happen.
     
  14. shirleystarr

    shirleystarr PetForums VIP

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    I would try the pup in a crate in your bedroom so that the pup can see you then little by little after a couple of weeks move the crate near the bedroom door then in another week move it outside the bedroom door with the bedroom door open
    Its takes a little while but gradually you can move the crate downstairs
    If he was fine when you first got him but he is crying now then something must have started it and the only way is to go back to square one
     
  15. Ann Elizabeth

    Ann Elizabeth PetForums Senior

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    Shoki will be 6 months old in a couple of weeks, crate trained she goes to her bed willingly on an night time, the crate is in the kitchen and her mum and aunt have their beds (not crated) and sleep in the kitchen, Shoki has slept fine & through the night until about 2 weeks ago, when she started howling in the middle of the night, which after a time started the other 2 barking:( a noise which can only be ignored for a short time!!!
    A couple of nights ago I decided to sleep downstairs, but left the dogs in the kitchen, a neighbour has a new rescue dog and I heard him start barking howling around the same time mine did - Shoki responding in kind and 2 older ones pacing.
    My daughter and I are now downstairs on alternative nights - dogs still in kitchen - ready to reassure and tell Shoki quiet, small treat if she behaves appropriately, no lights on, minute she curls back up 'good girl' and back to sofa with doors shut! Older two already ignoring both neighbours dog and puppy hoping she'll soon learn to ignore him too!
    Yes at 1/2/3 am its annoying and very difficult to remain calm but as I keep telling myself it's just time and patience
     
  16. 600andy

    600andy PetForums Junior

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    How easy would it be to start crate training at 5 months? We have a large pet carrier, would that do, or does he need to be able to sit up in it? Not adverse to crate training if that is what it takes.
     
  17. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    I'd put a baby gate on the kitchen doorway so as the pup doesn't feel so isolated - in fact I even leave the doors ajar for my Mals because I hate to think they may be upset in the night and I don't hear them. So the baby gates are for me in some respects, lol. :)
     
  18. BeauNoir

    BeauNoir PetForums VIP

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    They need to be able to stand up fully and turn around in the crate and also leave a little room to grow into. :)

    With Pixie I'll be honest, we didn't research it before we started training :eek: we just did the common sense approach, we would put a chew in the crate with the door open, she would then associate the crate with happy yummy times, we just then let the door close on her but not locked, then before we could even lock it on her she would just fall asleep in the crate after her chew! So then we locked it after her and gradually reduced the size of the treat, she still gets treats before bed now, just a few biscuits or bits of liver.

    She loves her crate, she runs into it at night as she knows she gets treats! We also use it to leave her during the day, same thing, she gets a chew when she goes in so she enjoys her time in there.
     
  19. 600andy

    600andy PetForums Junior

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    Ok, the crate sounds like the way forward. Sounds like the dusty end of a long road, but one that has to be travelled. Thanks for all the tips & advice, I think we now have the basis of a cunning plan!
     
  20. 600andy

    600andy PetForums Junior

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    Bought a nice crate (with a cover) and will have him in it tonight, in the bedroom. :)
     
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