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never thought I would say this but bring in dog licences

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by sjallen88, Sep 23, 2013.


  1. sjallen88

    sjallen88 PetForums Junior

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    I have had enough of irresponsible dog owners. Some may know Bubba has been getting aggressive on lead, especially with dogs that come running over with no real control, since being attacked 3 times over the last 2 months by little terrier cross breads that have been off lead that have basically run off from their owner. We have since been baking his favourite treats (heart with a dab of peanut butter) and sitting on woodland banking watching dogs from a distance, walking alongside the paths when seeing a dog gradually decreasing the distance and going on group walks with 4/5 dogs he gets along with.

    He has been doing great and yesterday we went to the Whitby area on a 8 mile walk, saw lots of people and dogs that were on leads that were kept under control and apart from one little bark he was great.

    Then this evening walking along the woods I heard a guy trying to shout his dog, as its narrow I retreated a good way round a wall and back up the path by about 500m, got Bubba into a sit and held his lead pretty tight and started the watch me routine.

    All of a sudden the dog (large terrier) came out from the cow field, ran up to Bubba and bit him on the ear. Unfortunately Bubba got hold of it and shook it around and then released it. It came back at Bubba but managed to kick it away whilst holding Bubba behind me. The dog ran off, back to his owner who initially shouted sorry then realised that there had been a fight, shoved his dog in the car then drove off whilst shouting something. I carried on to the end of the woods, where he was parked up having taken the dog home demanding my details which I refused to give him seeing as my dog was on lead, and he could basically get lost if I was going to pay his vet bill. As I walk round their on a regular basis and most people know me and Bubba I gave him my work details and said he could pass my details on to the police if he wanted as I would tell them what happened.

    Anyway I just think that people want a dog but dont put any real effort into it. A licence costing a real amount of money, £150 per dog, would deter the idiots and only the dedicated people who have thought about it all would go for it. Employ a team of people per council to check up on dog owners, make it legal to carry round with you when with a dog, if caught without it you have 7 days to produce it, failure results in a £10k fine, end of with no let offs. Easy money really.

    I am just sick of people letting their dogs run around with no recall training, bothering other dogs, then blaming others for their lack of control and general common sense.

    Anyway rant over, sorry people. On a plus note, least it wasn't raining and my new wooden flooring is a dream to wipe up after the little toad has trampled all over it.
     
  2. Dogless

    Dogless PetForums VIP

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    Licenses certainly don't work here. Less than a third of dogs are estimated to be licensed although it's a legal requirement and I have never seen it enforced. Those who are responsible purchase a license, those who aren't don't. There are more strays than anywhere else in the UK and there are many out of control dogs.

    I am sorry you had such a crap walk :mad:.
     
  3. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    Sorry you've had a crap time recently, but licenses are really not the answer, not in my book. Research and careful placement of pups is the answer, but then people who think they deserve to own a dog will buy them from anywhere. My question is, who is more likely to buy a licence for their dog? The person who has researched thoroughly, bought from health tested parents, ensures they stay in touch with the breeder and is conscientious, or the person who buys from the free ads? And who is it who you are trying to target with a dog licence?
     
  4. sezeelson

    sezeelson PetForums VIP

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    No, no and no!

    First of all dog licences will not stop dogs running up to yours. Simple as that

    Secondly there is no way I'm paying £150 a year for the luxury of being a responsible owner. Idiots will NOT pay a licence... They will still get a dog though.

    Licences don't work without enforcement, it was so easy to drive without insurance or even a licence before they starting cracking down on it and even now people are still driving without them and getting away with it.

    What makes you think this will work when our current laws aren't even enforced properly...?
     
  5. sjallen88

    sjallen88 PetForums Junior

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    I get that which is why I would only support them if brought in and properly enforced with real punishments. Something has to be done to stop the number of abandoned/dogs put in homes because people buy from shoddy breeders at a cheap price and then get fed up with it. That or just get a tazer and give the idiots ambling around with these dogs a good shock to wake them up. If only that was allowed.
     
  6. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    But why approach it at that end? Why not try to reach towards kids before they even become dog owners and push for something related towards educating kids, so that they understand the issues surrounding pet ownership, animal husbandry etc.
     
  7. dandogman

    dandogman PetForums VIP

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    10k punishment would have counter effects such as theft in some cases, as it would be the idiots who wouldn't pay... that's why courts determine fines by income, otherwise harsh fines just exacerbate and lead to new issues...

    I don't think dog licencing would work... if it was that great, why did they get rid of it years ago?
     
  8. lilythepink

    lilythepink PetForums VIP

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    sorry you had such a hard time of it.....his dog wasn't on a lead, he is the irresponsible dog owner.

    I don't think it would make much difference to ownership if there was a licence or not. and its not just dogs that come from shoddy breeders or cheap ones either that end up being abandoned.
     
  9. sjallen88

    sjallen88 PetForums Junior

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    My suggestion was of £150 as a one off payment, not a yearly charge. I agree the only people getting these would be the responsible owners, the others wouldn't. Then make dog breeding a properly licensed business that have to prove certain standards before they are allowed to sell, similar to food standard inspection with test purchases, the lot. Then simply start to clamp down on the free ads sellers with fines, not the pathetic £250 amounts but £10k-£20k that would have real implication on the individual. This figure from the serious backyard breeder starts to pay for the work required.

    This stops the amount of puppies going to crap homes for £200 where they have no intention of going to training classes or training their dog properly. Therefore this limits the supply of the dogs so the crap owners have no where to go. They then either pay the £150 on a license, which isn't going to happen, and the proper breeders who are now licensed get to see who is serious about owning a dog. Yes the price of pups go up as a result of this maintenance but a dog is a luxury and do cost money, and their are thousands of dogs that will die in homes due to the current system and peoples attitudes. So in short it does stop dogs running up to mine as these idiots wouldn't invest in this.

    I reiterate this only works if the whole system is monitored from top to bottom, but with other more important things to look at first, this will never get the attention it needs.
     
  10. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    I agree with the free ads limitations, but why penalise breeders who are responsible and already doing as much as possible? I don't make money from my dogs, I'm starting from £3k down and looking at over £1k for health testing before my second litter - granted that's for two dogs, but I'm not looking at ever making a profit, so why penalise people like me? I can afford it, but if charges add up, perhaps I'll just decide it ain't worth it, and then when everyone like me decides it ain't worth it, you're left with people who consider it is worth it, financially, because they don't put as much in (ethically speaking), as they get out.
     
  11. sjallen88

    sjallen88 PetForums Junior

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    I totally get that and I myself turned down a puppy from a litter as I thought they were doing it for the wrong reasons (paying towards their holiday apparently). Either way everyone has their opinions on it, same as any other tax/charge/insurance they have to have.

    The only way it works is if the great breeders that do everything possible to check their puppies homes and guarantee as much as possible they will be well cared for are subsidised by the back yard breeders.

    The only way this can be done is by criminal punishment with huge fines, similar to driving with no insurance (again I believe not a big enough fine to deter those that want to risk it) and making sure these fines are paid, through the proceeds of crime act similar to drug dealing/fraud.
     
  12. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    But how do you prove it? What about people who *claim* their bitch has been caught out, or who have been advised by their vet that it's ok to breed without health tests?

    We have a long way to go, and I've seen this sort of thread as long as I've owned dogs, and it was what I believed initially, but having looked at all the issues involved, I just don't think it's feasible, unless you want to penalise all, the good, bad and ugly.
     
  13. Ann Elizabeth

    Ann Elizabeth PetForums Senior

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    Sorry you've had such an upsetting walk and whilst I understand your frustration and anger, for all the reasons listed by other posters, it would not work. Large fines/prison sentences do not deter some from failing to purchase car/TV licenses, implementation & policing/monitoring costs would be horrendous. What about those that already own dogs would they have to pay a license fee and what would happen to their dogs if they couldn't afford the License (There are lots of people on low incomes who have budgeted carefully to afford their dog/s and for whom a License fee would be a £'s too much)
    I await the implementation of statutory micro chipping for dogs to see how that is going to work and who does/doesn't comply with it.
     
  14. lilythepink

    lilythepink PetForums VIP

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    Go to any shelter and see plenty very expensive dogs looking for new homes..price doesn't seem to matter to somebody who will get a puppy and then get rid of it soon afterwards.

    I have never been to a training class with any dog I have ever had....and my dogs have a very good home and life. Not everybody wants to get involved in the training stuff, doesn't make all of them bad owners.
     
  15. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    I can assure you there is not necessarily any correlation between

    licences and good behaviour
    cost of dog and good behaviour
    training classes and good behaviour


    etc etc

    Bans, fines etc do not prevent

    people from driving when banned
    people driving without a licence
    people driving with an MOT
    People having a tv without a licence

    etc etc etc

    Also you would penalise the

    responsible
    the poor
    the disabled
    volunteers eg PAT dogs etc
     
  16. sezeelson

    sezeelson PetForums VIP

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    I totally agree that puppies and dogs shouldn't be sold so easily over the Internet.

    I think it should be dedicated to specialist websites where sellers have show proof & evidence of their claims about the pup or dog. This will cut scamming as well. I don't think it fair that breeders are targeted as again, it is going to be the responsible ones who are hit hardest. Rearing pups isn't profitably when you do it properly.

    I think a lot of rescues need to sort themselves out too as some have restrictions that are far too unreaslistic. I lived in a top floor flat with no garden and my dog still had a brilliant quality of life.

    As you say, it's going to take a whole system to change the situation regarding dogs and I think the first and most important step is education for both children and adults, not nearly enough people have the knowledge to own a canine companion and should learn from an early age which talks being given in schools. This is something I'm looking to do in the future.

    The next would be to enforce current laws. I think the microchipping law should be scrapped and the tag law be strictly enforced with a heavy fine.

    This tag means the dog is identifiable by anyone, not just those who carry scanners.

    I also think dog warden or dog welfare officer etc. should be a voluntary applied for job. For example 2 payed staff with extra volunteers who can be trained up to respond to welfare issues and an authority to call when the police don't care.

    Without a training system in place with a governing body you can't force people to take puppy and dog classes so this is something that needs to be sorted out. Right now anyone can call them selves a trainer and charge through the nose for their classes. If it ever was a necessary part of dog ownership then prices will raise no doubt making lots of room for idiots which of course is only going to make the problem worse.

    A lot needs to be done to prevent what's going on but I don't think things will ever change. All the proposals they are looking to bring it are only going to treat the symptoms of what's going on but not actually prevent it.
     
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