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Neutering

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by Veba, Jul 18, 2019.


  1. Veba

    Veba PetForums Member

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    I'm looking for articles by sensible authors on neutering (or opinions from sensible posters ;) ). I've been putting off doing any proper research as I was hoping not to neuter. However, my darling boy (17 month old show cocker spaniel) has been sent home from his group walk for the second time for not getting on with another intact male (two different dogs). I need to figure out whether neutering would help with this.
     
  2. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel Banned

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  3. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel Banned

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    This is interesting too
     

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  4. Sarah H

    Sarah H Grand Empress of the Universe

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    Ultimately it's your decision. Aggro with other intact males isn't uncommon, especially in adolescent dogs finding their feet, and can become a learned behaviour if not nipped in the bud which is when neutering won't necessarily stop it. It could be that it's more of an issue with novelty - he may not come into contact with many entire boys and it's the novelty that he's unsure of. However if he's confident in general then anxiety/fear of novelty isn't likely the reason. Castration removes testosterone which gives dogs confidence, so if you have an anxious or fearful dog it's not advisable to neuter and remove any confidence they may have.
    You could always try chemical castration to see how he fairs before having the snip, as that can give you a good idea of how he will behave without his furry plums.
     
  5. Veba

    Veba PetForums Member

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    Thanks both. I'll keep reading.

    He is a confident dog and used to being around intact males at daycare (couple of times a month) and group walks (couple of times a week).

    Apart from an episode in May and again today he's usually fine with others dogs - plays with them, ignores them or gives a warning bark at the ones who sneak up behind him and sniff his bum.
     
  6. CheddarS

    CheddarS PetForums VIP

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    It made no difference to my boy, he still dislikes some dogs. We work on just avoiding, dogs don’t need to be friends.
     
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  7. McKenzie

    McKenzie PetForums VIP

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    Sounds very much like Elliot - well socialized, fine with most dogs, but the odd issue with other males once he hit adolescence. I tried the chemical neutering implant when he was 2 and got him neutered properly at 2.5. He’s much better but maybe he would have grown out of it anyway?

    I’m happy with my choice though.
     
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  8. SusieRainbow

    SusieRainbow Moderator
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    I'm debating the decision with Bobby. He seems well socialised with dogs and people, great temperament, but a bit fearful. His only fault is the indoor scent marking - but I know castration isn't necessarily a magical cure.
     
  9. McKenzie

    McKenzie PetForums VIP

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    Are you thinking of neutering or the implant to see how he goes?
     
  10. SusieRainbow

    SusieRainbow Moderator
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    I can't decide. How long does the implant last ?
     
  11. McKenzie

    McKenzie PetForums VIP

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    Around 6 months. It’s a tough one because obviously you don’t want him marking forever if there’s something you can do about it, but if the testosterone drop makes him even more nervous, 6 months is still a long time to wait for it to wear off! Although I think it takes about 6 weeks to really kick in like normal neutering.
     
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  12. SusieRainbow

    SusieRainbow Moderator
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    Yes, it's a tough one. OH wants to keep him entire, his marking is now limited to the kitchen and easily cleared up and he isn't in contact with any intact bitches.
    I'll have another chat with my vet and see what she thinks about the implant.
     
  13. McKenzie

    McKenzie PetForums VIP

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    I think it’s more popular over there - one vet I spoke to had never heard of it and I had a hard time finding a vet who would do it because they come in a pack of 2 and they didn’t want to be stuck with the second one with no one to purchase it. In the end even the vet who did the implant was reading the instruction leaflet in front of me!
     
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  14. SusieRainbow

    SusieRainbow Moderator
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    How bizarre to pack them in pairs !
    Where do they insert them ?
     
  15. McKenzie

    McKenzie PetForums VIP

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    Yes very random! One vet would do it if I bought them both!

    Between the shoulder blades from memory.
     
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  16. SusieRainbow

    SusieRainbow Moderator
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    I think we need to allow more settling in time , he has slotted into the household fantastically well but is very dog and people reactive on walks. Not agressive, just excitable.
    It's good toknow as a possible action though.
     
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  17. Veba

    Veba PetForums Member

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    Not possible when I rely on dog walkers, unfortunately.
     
  18. Jamesgoeswalkies

    Jamesgoeswalkies PetForums VIP

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    There are literally hundreds of studies, links, opinions and articles on neutering and probably the one thing they all agree on is the fact that they can't all agree. And that's basically because there is no one definitive answer.

    Behaviourally in males it's all about the testosterone so only behaviours fuelled by T will be effected. Marking is supposedly lessened (although if it is already an established behaviour this will have to be worked on but the innate desire will be lessened). And the ability and strong desire to procreate will also be lessened which in turn should lessen any same sex aggression as that is generally (in a friendly, even tempered dog) all about 'competition' with other males. Once again though if this has already become an established behaviour then it won't be a quick fix.

    We had an entire male come along to our Agility group who immediately showed aggression towards the two other (very calm) intact males and it completely changed the groups dynamics. He is known for this and unfortunately was asked to leave after a couple of sessions. The others in the group are female (I have no idea if they are spayed or unspayed) so to me it is most likely that it is their presence that sets the tension. Let's be honest you can't put two bulls in a field of cows ;) So maybe that is what is happening on your group walks Veba. I own one female that (not in season) can turn the head of every male dog just by walking into the ring (and at least one dog has completely lost the plot in Agility when he has gone under her spell :D).

    Hormones are a wonderful thing.

    The answer generally is to manage their environment especially as they come towards adulthood (I don't spay or neuter) but if you need to use walkers and group walks this isn't possible. Generally the major growth will be done by 18 months so neutering is certainly an option and then maybe work on some behaviour modification to re establish his relationship with males.

    J
     
  19. Veba

    Veba PetForums Member

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    Thanks. The not all agreeing thing is the reason I stopped researching last time! When we're out walking he is either happy to walk on past dogs (including an off-lead in season bitch) or sometimes he'll want to say hello but as much as I can I'll try to keep him walking. If that's not possible (off lead dogs, owners don't take the hint) then I'll say "say hello and let's go" in the hope the owners take notice. He had a few dogs come up off lead and growl at him which is when he had the first issue on the dog walk. The only time he has an issue with other dogs is when he's happy sniffing and is oblivious to a dog coming up behind him and sniffing his butt. We'll try to warn him but usually he'll just turn around, give one bark then go back to sniffing. He did this at class this week (dog was offlead for walking to heel and came over to us) but 15 minutes later, on the way out, was happy to play bow with the dog wanting to play.

    I don't really know what's normal with marking. He'll pee little amounts a lot on our walks but never marks inside. He doesn't hump and the only bitch he's shown an interest in is his half-sister who we now think was in season when we had a family get-together.

    He's a really easy, good boy so I don't want him to change :( I also don't want his coat to go all curly :( But I need him to be good on group walks. Or find a new walker who will do individual walks but our schedule is so inconsistent that's not going to be easy.
     
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