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Necessary health tests before breeding

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by tashi, Jul 7, 2008.


  1. BessieDog

    BessieDog PetForums VIP

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    And so we can expect the rescue numbers to increase once again, and for new owners to be hit with huge vets bills.

    I'm guessing the breed was a staffie. :rolleyes:
     
  2. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    Wow, my arrogance, you're willing to produce pups without doing any research, except ask if it's the law to health test potential breeding stock. Instead of replying with your breed of dog, and actually reading more about what is involved with breeding, you're just resorting to accusations about people you don't know because that's really all you can do. Unless you are actually defending your right to breed dogs knowing they could potentially have serious health problems, but hey, your dog's a nice dog so what does that matter?

    Maybe take a step back and read your own posts, rocco33 has summed it up very well I think, you need to think very long and hard about using your dog at stud at all if you do not have the relevant knowledge and experience. There are plenty of people out there who are doing just the same as you are thinking of doing, it's not illegal, but when you look at the number of dogs being bred, the number being rehomed and put to sleep, you have to ask yourself why you would want to potentially add to that number? If I'm arrogant for asking you that, or trying to bring to your attention that breeding is more of a complex issue than you perhaps think it is, then fine, I'm arrogant.

    And yes, you're right, making a cup of tea is complex.
     
  3. rocco33

    rocco33 PetForums VIP

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    Your own arrogance is alarming. As are your breeding plans. You clearly have no idea about temperament or behaviour and are planning to offer your dog at stud on temperament alone.

    TBH, your writing style (and ideas) are very similar to another recent poster who would possibly share your views - there seem to be a few 'new members' joining to say the same thing at the moment :rolleyes:
     
  4. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    The thought did pass fleetingly through my head that it was going to turn out to be a rare blue staffy but I am currently refusing to allow that preconception to sit in my head. It would be nice if the person had actually posted their breed, there are plenty of posts on here about breeding, including cross breeding, and potential issues surrounding health, including those linked to conformation, but if they're not even willing to read this one thread I'm afraid they're not going to find the information they need. :(
     
  5. Lizz1155

    Lizz1155 PetForums VIP

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    Please correct me if I'm wrong: I thought although health tests prior to breeding were not legally mandatory, if the puppy does turn out to have a health problem which could have been tested for, the owner of the puppy could easily sue the breeder so that they have to pay the puppy's health costs?

    Something to do with the sales-of-goods act and selling a "faulty good"?
     
  6. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    You're not wrong entirely, although I'm not sure if I read something about it not actually coming under the sale of goods, but I'm sure there has been a case of a puppy buyer suing a breeder for not undertaking the relevant health tests but I don't know just how much the breeder told them or even if they misled them. Unfortunately, not enough people know about health testing full stop, including puppy buyers. I regularly get emails asking if I'm breeding a litter and please could I tell them the cost of a chocolate puppy bitch/dog? It's very rare indeed that I am asked about health tests on my dogs alone, and it's rare I get a reply when I respond and explain that they need to ask about health tests, and offer to help them find a litter from a good breeder.
     
  7. leashedForLife

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    Mark,
    50% of the dogs born who are bred out of registered parents are MALE. Given the number of litters
    which any one stud can sire [especially when owned by an unethical profit-minded person], as few as 10%
    of those male dogs, CHOSEN WITH CARE, could maintain gene-diversity while avoiding doubling-up on bad genes;
    they'd need to check COI & test or screen extensively, but it could be done.

    U don't mention showing Ur dog in the breed-ring, so i'm going to assume that the only person who has
    passed judgement on his "gorgeous" quality is U --- bear in mind that U are inherently biased, since
    just like the mother of an infant or the author of a book, every one of them thinks theirs is a masterpiece.
    He needs to be evaluated, in or OUT of the breed ring, against the breed standard - by a disinterested
    3rd party who is knowledgeable about his breed.

    What breed is he? I know, i know, it doesn't matter to U, U love him purely because of his wonderful,
    wonderful temperament, his inner qualities, not his outer appearance or his skeletal structure or any other
    physical or health factor - it's his personality that U think MUST BE preserved. However, his breed
    also influences how many prospective studs there may be in the gene-pool.

    If he's in a very rare breed, he may be of value even if he has some significant flaws - depending upon
    just what they might be; if he's an exceedingly common breed, a relatively-minor but troublesome issue -
    one that's dam*ed hard to REMOVE, once it's present --- could make him useless, as a stud.

    Also, as an FYI:
    Aside from fear - timidity, shyness, sound-sensitive, etc; & aggression - dog-dog aggro,
    human-directed aggro, predatory behavior, & related issues --- very little of his "wonderful personality" is a
    heritable trait. His temperament was partially inherited, of course, but the vast majority of his personality
    was shaped by his experiences, over his lifespan so far - & his pups won't inherit HIS life, they'd have
    individual & very particular lives, all their own, from in utero to birth, their littermates, their breeder's
    home [the dam's owner], their early puphood there, their first homes, growing up, puberty,
    & adulthood.
    None of that is heritable - they would be, just as he was, shaped by their lives.

    U cannot use his "wonderful personality", which is 90% not heritable, as the prime reason to breed him.

    His physical traits, which are all heritable, must be screened to know if he's a worthy sire. Since none of us
    has X-ray vision, that means joint radiographs, DNA-tests for PRA & more, possibly skin-punches, or other,
    breed-specific tests.
    .
    .
     
  8. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    Just another thought, if he's a pedigree, and not a rare breed, he's likely to have many, many relatives out there. There's no need to breed from every dog to keep them all going every time, I have the best character out of my four sat next to me on the sofa, she's a lovely girl, has a temperament to die for, is superb with other dogs, kids etc, bomb proof! She's had a few health tests, and because her elbow plates were questionable, I decided not to go ahead and breed from her. But her pedigree is one with numerous, numerous well known names in there, and in fact all three Labradors I own are close relatives, having her half sister, and a daughter from her half sister. If I couldn't breed on from any of my dogs, there are other relatives out there who will keep those lines alive, and although I may initially be sad, the thing is, you've always got to do what's best for your dog(s) and not let your own emotions make the decisions for you. Any breeding is done for entirely selfish reasons, because otherwise we wouldn't breed at all, but the motivating factor has to be that you are doing your very best to produce the healthiest and best examples of a *breed* or *type* rather than breeding because you love your dogs and think they are cracking characters ;)

    Anyway, I'm off to sort my dogs out and get my tea on the go. I do hope you haven't disappeared for good and will try and read through some of the answers and threads. Do bear in mind that none of us can make you read posts how they are meant, your interpretation of how things are posted may not be exactly how it's implied, what might sound harsh or blunt is simply honest and truthful, but none of us like hearing any criticism, or implied criticisms about our dogs, after all, we all own the best dogs in the world, well I do.
     
  9. leashedForLife

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  10. Kroon12

    Kroon12 PetForums Newbie

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    Eye Tested For PHPV – (Persitent Hyperplastic Primary Vitreous)

    Eye Tested For PPSC (Posterior Polar Subcapsular Cataract)
     
  11. newfiesmum

    newfiesmum Banned

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    This thread was start over six years ago and someone has dragged it up just to advertise their products. Geez! :nonod:
     
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