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Nasal Squamous Cell Carcinoma

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by jomax, Aug 14, 2008.


  1. lovemydogs7

    lovemydogs7 PetForums Newbie

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    Lab Mommy,

    Another thought, if your dog's tumor is in the nose, I assume it is in the soft tissue? I don't know if they have access to a local chemo called Cisplatin, but it was not a great option for me (although we did use it too) but since Bremen's cancer was going through his bone, it is not very vascular and does not work that well. For soft tissue, from what I understand Cisplatin is most effective. I had another dog with cancer (different kind of cancer) at the same time as Bremen, but it was a tumor in his soft tissue. We removed it surgically and inserted the Cisplatin beads in the surgery site. Then we did radiation on top of that. It was very effective and he is now here with me, healthy, 1.5 years later. Of course, it was not as aggressive of a cancer, but I really belive that doing the Cisplatin made a big difference in curing him. One benifit of Cisplatin, since it is local, they do not have the side effects of chemo. Another benifit is that it targets the tumor directly. It is also a one time procedure. Talk to your vet about it, I hope this is something that is available to you. Good luck.

    Jackie
     
  2. lovemydogs7

    lovemydogs7 PetForums Newbie

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  3. lovemydogs7

    lovemydogs7 PetForums Newbie

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    Just finshed reading it. At the end they talk about treating dogs and cats with Cisplatin too. Very good article.
     
  4. labmommy

    labmommy PetForums Newbie

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    A good article! Thank you for sharing! Cooper's tumor is in the soft tissue. It is located in the inner corner of his nose just tucked away so you can't see it unless you are looking for it.

    Today the news was not good to start. The vet spoke to the oncology department at a major university with a veterinary oncology department. Both he and the other vet we saw who did the CT scan have sent patients there. They said with radiation, Cooper had 4 months left. Without the chemo, he has less than 4 months. I was devastated. He said he'd seek a second opinion and did.

    Another university said they would not perform radiation. They would do radical surgery, remove the tumor, a bit more around it, and the lymph nodes around/under the jaw. They'd test for cancerous cells. If none, they have had success with no other treatment needed and they expect it to prolong his life several more years. If they found cancerous cells, he'd receive chemo every three weeks with the time frame depending on what they found. It would prolong his life 2-3 years. Either way, Cooper would live almost to his normal expected life span.

    They can see us Monday, do surgery Tuesday, and we can have Cooper back home Wednesday.

    My husband and I are discussing it tonight. We want to everything for our boy. We don't have children. Our dogs are our babies. We'll call the vet tonight with a few more questions and our decision. Thank you for your advice and help.

    Carrie
     
  5. labmommy

    labmommy PetForums Newbie

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    The vet sent us photos of what Cooper's face could look like after the surgery. We have decided we just can't do that. However, we are open to other possibilities and treatments. So, we are headed to the university on Monday for a consult. Things are not looking good. We want Cooper around as long as possible, but we don't want to be selfish. We want his life to be happy and of good quality. I did send our vet the article posted and asked him to take a look at it.

    We'll keep you posted.

    Carrie
     
  6. Blues Mommy

    Blues Mommy PetForums Newbie

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    OMG... thank you so much for posting the article about the horses!!!! The Equine Center in Virginia that did this study is literally right down the road from me. I am going to contact them tomorrow and get more information.
    Maybe they would be willing to do the surgery for their studies!!!! Or my vet can contact them for more information, since i was going to have them do the debulking anyways.. maybe they can put these "beads" in after the debulking.. Please say a prayer!!! OMG!! Thank you so much for posting this.
     
  7. Sushiboofay

    Sushiboofay PetForums Newbie

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  8. lovemydogs7

    lovemydogs7 PetForums Newbie

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    Blues Mommy,

    I am glad this was so helpful. Definitely don't get hopeless because of money, know that there are tons of options. And you are right, they are willing to do things cheaper and possibly free for studies. In fact I took part in some studies and got some discounts. There are other ways to get discouts too. It is just about knowing what is available. I also live in VA and had my dogs treated in VA. You should contact me via my email so I can share more info.

    Oh and if debulking means they are doing some surgery, absolutely get them to put in the beads while they are in there. That is they way it is the cheapest because you don't have to pay to have them implanted if they are opening it up anyway. It might be hard for you to get the Cisplatin, if I remember correctly they were being distributed to only some vets and I belive it was because it was part of a study. If you contact Dr. Beck at the Hope Center in Vienna, VA then she should be able to help you with getting the beads. http://www.hopecenter.com/SpecialtyDepartments/Oncology/Staff/tabid/155/Default.aspx Which vets do you go to?

    Jackie
     
    #68 lovemydogs7, Jan 6, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
  9. lovemydogs7

    lovemydogs7 PetForums Newbie

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    Lab Mommy,

    That is what I mean, it is such a personal decision, regarding how to treat the cancer. My best advice to you would be to not only look at pictures but try to talk to some people who have had that type of surgery. I had decided I was not going to remove part of Bremen's head and his eye. I had decided to do something less aggressive because it was so upsetting to think of how barbaric that sounded. But then I met this really happy dog who had part of her jaw and one eye removed and the bone all around the eye. She had SCC also. It never came back. This did not happen with Bremen, I did lose him, but the surgery was probaly the easiest part of his treatments and he was playing the next day, he did not care that the top of his head had been cut back. But each case is different. I am not for or against surgery, and I remember deciding whether or not I could do that to my dog or see him that way was the hardest part of the experience. That is why it was so helpful to see a real life example and talk to the owners and see how the dog behaved. This really helped me understand how it would affect him and helped me make the best decision for my dog.

    Oh also, while SCC is a very aggressive cancer that often is not curable, try not to worry too much about the guesses vets through at you as to how much time he has left. They can only tell you averages, and that may be totally different than what ends up happening. I worried so much when I was told I had 2-3 months left with Bremen by the first oncologist I saw. I did end up seeing a few others and each one said something a little different. I worried so much that I found it hard to enjoy having him around still. You cannot control when you will lose your dog so try not to worry. Bremen ended up hanging in there for another 9 months and when I turned off the worry (easier said than done, I know) but the times I was able to not worry we had the best times together. I will never know if we extended his life by fighting the cancer or if he would have only had 9 months anyway. But we did try and we also made sure that we maintained his quality of life. I can look back now and feel that we made all the right decisions for him. I have no regrets and I know that even though he was ill, I made sure anything we did, did not hurt the quality of his life. I am sure that this will bring you peace too whenever it is time to say goodbye. And although the prognoses is bad, there are dogs that have been cured. So try to enjoy your time with your pup. And you can't go wrong with your approach, to have his best intrest in mind. It is not easy to make these decisions but you will make the right ones.

    Jackie
     
    #69 lovemydogs7, Jan 6, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
  10. labmommy

    labmommy PetForums Newbie

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    Jackie - thank you so much for your words. We fretted back and forth last night about what to do. Our biggest concern was quality of life. We are looking at all possibilities, but we want to do what's best for Cooper. He currently is not in any pain and is truly the happiest dog you have ever met. With the surgery, they would basically remove the entire tip of his nose (all that soft tissue). We just don't know if that is truly the best thing to do. There are other issues after surgery to deal with, so we'll see.

    We have an appointment to see the oncologist Monday morning. We'll see if Cooper's cancer, which seem to have caught early, can possibly be removed without disfiguring him so much.

    I am so happy to have found this forum and to have a chance to tell about our experience through words.

    Carrie
     
  11. Zayna

    Zayna PetForums VIP

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    just wanted to say im so sorry for what you are going through. You sound like wonderful caring owners who will do the best you can for your dog.
    Wish there will more like you. will keep everything crossed for your boy xx
     
  12. vegchowfun

    vegchowfun PetForums Newbie

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    Labmommy,

    I was in your shoes a little over 1 year ago. It is a very hard time trying to get answers and make decisions. Pez's tumor was also in his nose. We were told surgery to remove his nose or chemo. They said with the tumor being in the nostril, radiation would not work.

    We tried chemo first, because we did not want to have his nose removed. Since his tumor was visible, we could keep and eye on it and see if it continued to grow while he was getting the chemo. The chemo did not work and we could recognize this after 2 treatments, so I felt I had no other choice, but to have his nose removed.

    Him without a nose was a big adjustment, but he is happy and healthy now. He can still smell and that was my biggest concern before the surgery. Even though he looks different, he is still the same baby. If we would have had his surgery from the beginning we probably would have been able to save more of his nose and his teeth, but I am okay with the decision we made. We tried the chemo, and although it did not work, I am glad I gave him that chance because it worked for others.

    I hope your vets give you the best options possible. Keep us posted and good luck!

    Krissy
     
  13. lovemydogs7

    lovemydogs7 PetForums Newbie

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    Blues Mommy and Lab Mommy,

    I hope you guys are doing okay and hanging in there. I know the decision process is really tough.

    Blues Mommy,

    Did you get any info about Cisplatin?

    Jackie
     
  14. labmommy

    labmommy PetForums Newbie

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    We've finally returned from our trip to the university. Our vet there was the head of oncology and was absolutley wonderful. They ran another CT. The cancer has not spread any where else. His tumor is approximately 3 cm long and in in his nose only. However, to remove the cancer completely, they'd still have to remove the soft tissue of his nose. His SCC showed a high mitotic rate which means it is more likely to spread than other SCCs. We did ask about the beads. They are keeping the tumors away but not treating the cancer, so it wasn't an option for us.

    Cooper is going to have chemo instead to help control the cancer and prevent it from spreading further. He will have a carboplatin once every 3 weeks for at least 6 treatments. He must also remain on Deramaxx for the rest of his life. The treatment is not a cure but palliative therapy. The cancer is stll stage 1, and we did catch it early. Our first chemo treatment in Monday.

    Cooper remains to be in great spirits and his normal self. The tumor is not bothering him in any way or interferring with his breathing. Altough this isn't a cure, we are happy to live with our sweet boy.

    Thank you to everyone who posted on the forum topic. It has been so helpful to us. We'll keep writing about Cooper's progress.
     
    #74 labmommy, Jan 14, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
  15. labmommy

    labmommy PetForums Newbie

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    I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but I wanted to give an update on our sweet boy Cooper. He's had two rounds of chemo and is doing GREAT! The tumor is still there of course, but he's handling the meds very well. We are going for our third round next week. We've learned the patterns of his side effects and are able to deal with those, the biggest being a loss of appetite on the second and third day after his chemo treatment. He still has nose bleeds on occasion as well. Just wanted to give a little happy news on a Friday!
     
  16. TheTroubleshooter

    TheTroubleshooter PetForums Newbie

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    My name is Willem Legerstee, living in Almere the Netherlands and the prod owner of our buddy Jazz
    My 9,5 year old Golden Retriever Jazz was diagnosed with nasal squamous cell carcinomas. It's visible in the right nostril of his nose.
    Today,after a CT scan at the vet in Amsterdam, they told me the tumor has a 3,6cm size. There is not mestatizing found in the rest of his body.

    I saw a lot of postings on the Pet Owners Community Forum and came across your posting offering you expertise with this kind of cancer and treatments to other people on the forum.

    I am very much in doubt what to do.
    After talking extensively with my vet today we decided,after the CT scan, to cancel the planned surgery because of another option which I found on the internet. A clinical trial which started in the Netherlands with Palladia.
    But tonight,after reading the postings on the Forum I started doubting again if surgery is the best option for my buddy after all.

    I have the following options to consider:

    Surgery

    My vet says he has to remove quite a large part of the black part of the nose and remove the tumor inside.
    He is convinced the can sort of reconstruct the outside of the nose. But he warned me that the change of recurrence of the tumor is high with these kind of tumors.

    But by removing the tumor and therefore the blockage in his nose gives the dog at least a 9 months "normal" life.

    Doing nothing will probably lead to death after 3 months.

    Radiation

    That's something we definitely don't want him to experience.
    Because he needs to have anesthesia each time (21 times) we dob;t want to consider this doing to him.


    Palladia drug therapy

    This seemed this afternoon a good alternative.No deformity due to the surgery but we don't know what 6 weeks of trial will bring.
    Maybe after 6 weeks the tumor is still there and the drug didn't work.Or worse, the tumor comes back more aggressively once the treatment is stopped.
    And then we have to go the surgery after all,but now 6 weeks later.

    So tonight we made the decision to go for surgery.

    But I really would like to have your opinion on my case.
    Because you have a lot of experience with this type of cancer and the treatments available.

    I would really appreciate it if you could give your advise/guidance.
     
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