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My Ragdoll kittens' colours are not setting in

Discussion in 'Cat Chat' started by Azura Royals, Sep 10, 2018.


  1. Azura Royals

    Azura Royals PetForums Newbie

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    They are both around 7 months old by now but their colours have not settled in like I thought they would, I got them at 14 weeks (when we first got them they were practically white which I thought was uncommon) and I know that it takes Ragdolls at least 2 to 3 years to get their full colours and even then it can still change. they are both registered active with the GCCF and has been tested clear of HCM and PKD as well if that helps.

    The bicolour girl (Mina) is registered as a 'Tortie Point Ragdoll' which I think is incorrect, the breeder also told me she is supposed to be a seal and I have only recently noticed that she may be a torbie instead of a tortie due to some lynx-like markings above her inverted V on the face and she only has colours on her face, tail and the tiniest hint of colour coming on her back. The lynx boy (Nami) is a chocolate but other than his face, tail and front paws the rest of his body is still pure white.

    My question is, is it common for Ragdolls to still have practically no colour development except for the face area at that age? And also is Mina registered under the wrong colour and would that affect anything?

    This is my first post so please tell me if I did anything wrong and thank you so much for any help in advance!

    20180622_203133.jpg This is Mina.

    20180629_130259.jpg This is Nami.
     
  2. Tigermoon

    Tigermoon PetForums VIP

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    Are these your first ragdolls?

    Firstly colourpointed cats take months, sometimes years to fully colour, especially the paler colours. The girl is a bicolour so will have no colour on her legs at all (or at least shouldn't have) the male is a mitted so will also have very little if any colour to his hind legs. Tabby markings on the face area is normal for colourpointed kittens and they will only fade out once the colour is fully established.

    Now for the bad bit. The male looks like he has a squint. You need to get this checked by a vet. Cats with squints should not be bred from. The female looks blue (poss blue tortie) to me. GCCF never refer to tabbies as Lynx, so if that's what the GCCF paperwork says, it's fake.

    Here is the standard of points for GCCF registered ragdolls.
    http://www.tbrcc.co.uk/standardpoints.htm
     
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  3. QOTN

    QOTN PetForums VIP

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    Mina cannot be a tabby unless one of her parents is a tabby. She looks dilute to me so you could establish if she is blue rather than seal by testing for two dilute genes.
     
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  4. Azura Royals

    Azura Royals PetForums Newbie

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    Yes, they are my first Ragdolls, I was hoping to start as just a hobby breeder of Ragdolls with just these two so I went all the way over to Bradford (I live in Northern Ireland) to get them as I couldn't find any Ragdolls that are registered for sale over here.

    I just thought since she is supposed to be a seal point that there should be more colour on her by now but she is still very pale.

    Thanks for the advice about the male, I will definitely get that looked into but could you possibly tell me what a squint is and would that affect his health in any way? He is registered as a 'Chocolate Tabby Point Ragdoll', I am just used to calling it lynx personally.

    @Tigermoon
     
    #4 Azura Royals, Sep 10, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  5. Azura Royals

    Azura Royals PetForums Newbie

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    Mina's father is a seal tabby and her mother is a chocolate bicolour tortie, Mina is also a carrier of the chocolate gene since the breeder got her tested by the Lanford Vets.

    @QOTN
     
  6. Tigermoon

    Tigermoon PetForums VIP

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    Mina wouldn't need to be tested for chocolate as she would have to carry it based on her parentage.

    A squint is not acceptable in any breed or any registry, and is considered a fault bad enough to get the cat disqualified from a show. It is where one or both eyes turn in towards the nose and will give the cat a degree of double vision and is passed on to offspring.
     
  7. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave PetForums VIP

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    You can DNA test both for colour, dilute and agouti. Colour means black or chocolate, dilute would turn those into blue or lilac, and agouti is the gene that produces a tabby cat - a non-agouti is a self cat. If you belong to one of the clubs in the Langford scheme you get a 20% discount.

    https://www.langfordvets.co.uk/diagnostic-laboratories/diagnostic-laboratories/general-info-breeders

    I hope these are genuinely registered - there are an awful lot of exceedingly dodgy Ragdoll breeders around. If they are the registration policy looks like they should be negative for the Ragdoll HCM gene which as I understand it means that whilst it doesn't eliminate the chances of HCM greatly reduces it.

    https://www.gccfcats.org/Portals/0/Ragdoll.RegPol.24Feb16.pdf

    There is a sticky above about determining if papers are genuine or not:

    https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/pedigree-papers.454267/
     
  8. Azura Royals

    Azura Royals PetForums Newbie

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    The papers are genuine, I got the registration certificate from the breeder to transfer them into my name on the GCCF website, the microchip number written on the papers on both of them matches the ones on GCCF. Both of them were also tested for HCM and PKD with Langford Vets and the results came back normal. They were also fully vaccinated and came with their medical records as well as the 5 generation certificate.

    Thank you for telling me I can test agouti as I thought you could only test them on their colours.

    @OrientalSlave
     
  9. Azura Royals

    Azura Royals PetForums Newbie

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    So say that Nami does not have a squint and I can breed both of them together, I wouldn't need to DNA test the litters of kittens since the sire is a chocolate? The only reason I am asking about their colours are since there were practically pure white at 14 weeks old, I don't know if I have enough knowledge to know the exact colours and patterns of their offsprings before I register them and find them new homes since I am just a beginner Ragdoll breeder.

    I did not know how serious a squint is in a cat, I will remember for the future and will definitely get it looked into ASAP thank you.

    @Tigermoon
     
  10. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave PetForums VIP

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    You need a mentor, especially if you don't have experience of cats & kittens (e.g.) through fostering. The person who sold you the kittens should be prepared to help even though they are a long way away. I still talk regularly to the woman I brought my first girl from, mostly it's social but I still ask her advice from time to time.
     
  11. QOTN

    QOTN PetForums VIP

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    If the breeder had Mina tested for chocolate, the result would have come back in one of three ways, no chocolate gene, one chocolate gene or two chocolate genes, so presumably the result was the second in this case or the breeder would not have registered her as seal.

    I think she is probably blue, dilute of seal. It would be a good idea to ask the breeder to have her also tested for dilute, since Langford keep the DNA for, I think, two years so people can have subsequent tests if necessary. You could offer to pay although it is really in the breeder's interest to have the registration of his/her kittens correct. You could ask for an Agouti test. as well.
     
  12. blkcat

    blkcat PetForums Member

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    I have a squint (me the person not the cat). I thought immediately your cat had one too.

    It's very tiring to focus on things without glasses, that's when double vision can kick in. It affects my depth perception, I have very little but can compensate in other ways. You might find he misses the target when he jumps, or missses catching things.

    It can effectively make you blind in one eye, if the eye is turned in enough. Because your brain can't match up the images between the two it may give up and ignore the image from one eye completely.

    Your cat won't have ever known any different, this will be normal to him and he will have learnt to see like this. So I imagine he will cope and adapt very well as a cat in his own right.

    I guess it wouldn't be ideal for breeding as everyone says though *sniff*
     
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  13. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave PetForums VIP

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    Either the breeder is totally clueless, or you are having the wool pulled. Every Ragdoll kitten from a chocolate Ragdoll is either chocolate or carries it, no need to test for colour.

    Edit: Chocolate or lilac.
     
    #13 OrientalSlave, Sep 10, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  14. Rufus15

    Rufus15 PetForums VIP

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    Why has this breeder sold you active cats without mentoring you? This is all information they should be giving you. Do you show? If not, it might be worth visiting one, or indeed showing at one, to meet other Raggie owners and breeders and build up a network of local people you can ask advice from. Asking advice on a forum is fine but we can only help from pictures, and very often cats look so different in the fur.
     
  15. Azura Royals

    Azura Royals PetForums Newbie

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    I was told that Mina is a carrier of the chocolate gene, the Langford Vets results came back as "Carrier of Chocolate (B/b or b/bl)". On the GCCF form, she is only registered as a "Tortie Point Ragdoll", I was confused as to why there was no mention of her colour or her bicolour on the form but the breeder ensured me it was fine... Foolish on my part.

    @QOTN
     
  16. Azura Royals

    Azura Royals PetForums Newbie

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    That sounds very unpleasant I am sorry you have that...

    Nami seems to be able to judge distances between things just like a normal cat, I've also never seen him stumble or miss a jump (unless the floor is wet and slippery) and he plays just fine with toys and other cats in the house so fingers crossed he doesn't have a squint. I've booked him in for a vet appointment tomorrow to check it out just to be sure anyway.

    @blkcat
     
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  17. Azura Royals

    Azura Royals PetForums Newbie

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    I did not know that as long as one of the parents have it it can be passed on (thank you for educating me!).

    I am not sure what they were doing but I have the results for her Langford Vets with me since the breeder provided me with it and it says she was tested for the chocolate gene and that she is a carrier.

    I am also looking for a mentor as we speak since I do think that in the long run, I will be needing expertise help as the knowledge I have of the Ragdoll breed was basically all my own research.

    @OrientalSlave
     
  18. Azura Royals

    Azura Royals PetForums Newbie

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    They were very helpful during the month or so while I was preparing to travel all the way over to collect them, they kept me up to date with photos and answered all the questions I had of the breed and the kittens at the time but since I picked them up and came back home we've lost contact quite soon after, I was asking about Mina's colour that she is registered under a few times but they just kept saying it's fine and that she is a seal carrying chocolate and that tortie point means she's a seal.

    @Rufus15
     
  19. Dumpling

    Dumpling PetForums VIP

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    Not being clumsy/being able to judge distances doesn't mean he doesn't have a squint. My oriental has a squint and he is very agile! I also have one eyed cat and she is also very nimble (she's an amazing fly hunter!) and is less clumsy than some 2 eyed cats I've had!
     
  20. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave PetForums VIP

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    You can get a Seal Tortie Point - she would be registered as RAG f - but since a parent is chocolate the only reason to test is if they weren't sure if she was Seal or chocolate. But even I, who breeds very few pointed cats, can usually tell that by looking at the paw pads.
     
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