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my Patterdale Terrier x pup is out of control

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by Glenbo, Apr 1, 2011.


  1. Glenbo

    Glenbo PetForums Newbie

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    Hi i have a 4 month year old Patterdale Terrier x Cocker Spaniel....

    And I'm making a real mess of training him.

    He is my first dog i have ever owned, being a long time Cat owner, i didn't realise how hard it was to own a Dog, that being said i love him and I'm attached to him, so looks like i need to train myself as well as him.

    Here is my problems with him.

    -Messing in the house, randomly anywhere, on sofas, floors, anywhere

    -The dog coming between me and my partner when we are sitting on the sofa

    -Stealing/Snatching food, running off with it, then getting aggressive when trying to retrieve it from him (he also does this with my toddlers toys)

    -Aggressive play fighting, including growling, biting, scratching

    -Running off any chance he can get (we have stair gates to stop him getting into the hall way where the front door is, but the kids will leave it open occasionally and he will make a run for it, he did this today and got hit by a car in the road outside my house, luckily he was not hurt)

    -Running up stairs and hiding, he is not allowed up stairs in the house but any chance he will get he will run upstairs and hide under the bed where we can't get to him

    -not lying in his bed so constantly havign to get him off the sofa

    -can't take him off the lead, he will make a run for it or attack other dogs

    -Attacking/jumping on/biting/pulling out hair of other dogs that are friendly to him

    -Chasing 1 of my 3 cats to the point it wont come down the stairs, the other 2 fight back at him and hes scared of them

    -Stealing the cats food

    List is pretty endless, theres probably plenty of things i have missed out.

    Where do i start? today he got hit by a car after chasing him outside for half a hour after he got out of the house, he wasn't hurt but very nearly.

    Any help would be useful, i never realised how hard keeping a dog was and if i knew i wouldn't of jumped in head first like i did, but i have him now, and i want to make him obedient without paying lots of money for classes etc and make him a happy family dog.


    This is Brucey my Patterdale Terrier x Cocker Spaniel

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Dogless

    Dogless PetForums VIP

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    I think some of your problems stem from having a cross from two very intelligent breeds who need work to keep them occupied....lots of mental stimulation.

    I also feel that, at this point, with the problems you describe that it would be well worth spending money at least on classes, if not a behaviourist to give you advice and guidance. Resource guarding, aggression, lack of bite inhibition etc need sorting asap.

    Reference the toilet training; I would start from scratch; take pup out every hour or so, plus on waking, finishing a meal, finishing playing, any sign of circling, sniffing, scratching at the floor etc. Watch like a hawk. Praise like mad when the correct behaviour is achieved; don't punish accidents, just clean them up with a pet cleaner. At 4 months it may also be worth attaching a house line so that pup is never out of your sight. Also crate training (there is a sticky here) is worth it's weight in gold in my opinion, but is very much a personal choice.

    Lastly; I would get pup checked by a vet following the car incident; serious internal injuries may be present in the absence of external signs (not trying to worry you unduly, sorry).

    Hopefully, people with far more knowledge than me will post soon - just didn't want to ignore you.
     
  3. RobD-BCactive

    RobD-BCactive PetForums VIP

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    He does look adorable! With a dog you make a large time investment when they're young, and then enjoy the return for years after.

    Take a look at the housetraining thread for the messes issues. Basically supervise, take out when he wants to go and reward with praise or even a training treat for going in the right place. If you can clear up the smells where he's been before with Biological powder good enough, and then avoid him doing it in the wrong places; he'll soon learn where he's meant to go. Regular meal times matter to help his schedule be predictable.

    Puppy classes ought not be very expensive, it's not like car driving lessons. You need to learn how to train, and have a dog do what you want.

    Your basic problem is that your Brucey is acting like a dog, rather than a dog that's been taught how to live nicely with people.

    On the guarding of "stolen" objects, the right strategy is to exchange something he finds higher value. You can practice with toys he likes, have him give you them when saying "Drop!" wafting a training treat to his nose (small delicious smelly things either ready prepared, or small slices of hotdog, cheese, or leftover chicken etc), and then give the object back. So he learns surrendering an object to you, tends to pay.

    What you absolutely musten't do, is chase him around, try to snatch things by trickery, or force him to give stuff up.

    The puppy "attacking" other dogs, is just playing and normal, they love play-fighting.

    If you can find a puppy play romp or class near you, they are great fun to go to. Take a look at Dog Star Daily for some top advice on puppy rearing Raising A Puppy and Dog Star Daily Free Download Aricles
     
    #3 RobD-BCactive, Apr 1, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  4. gizzmo341

    gizzmo341 PetForums Junior

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    OMG the second pic is my dog i swear!!!
     
  5. kaisa624

    kaisa624 PetForums VIP

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    He looks like a sweetie.

    Our Holly isn't allowed on the sofa without an invite, so if she jumps up or is already on the sofa (if we are out of the room), we point to the floor and say "off". However when she was a pup we used to use the back of our arm, or our leg to literally push her off the sofa. She knows not to, but she pushes her luck.

    As for the upstairs thing... Can you not fit a stair gate? We have a stair gate from the kitchen to the hallway, so that she can't get upstairs.

    Also with the stealing thing... once he has the hang of "drop", start to teach him "leave", so as soon as he starts to look at something say "leave", and if he leaves it alone, praise. If he goes and gets it, you can use your "drop" command :)
     
  6. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    I agree with the post above by Dogless. It's too late now, but Patterdales (and their crosses) are not suitable for inexperienced owners. They are one of the toughest, most demanding breeds around and aggression problems are quite common. Resource guarding is a common problem in Cocker Spaniels too.
    Some things to try:
    Stop him going upstairs by putting a babygate at the bottom of the stairs.
    Teach him that nothing in life is free; he has to sit before he gets his food, any treats and any game with him is on your terms. Keep him on a light lead around the house all the time (cut off the loop your hand goes through so it won't get snagged, about 5 or 6 feet will do nicely), then you can remove him from the sofa/anywhere he shouldn't be without getting confrontational - you can just pick up the other end and make him go where you want. You can also help house training by tying it to your belt so he can't go off and crap on the furniture. You can see when he wants to go (sniffing the ground, circling) and get him outside pronto.
    It's really important to go to training classes; they are for you as much as the dog, so you can learn what his body language is saying and you can get lots of ideas for things to do with him.
     
  7. Glenbo

    Glenbo PetForums Newbie

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    Thanks for the feedback.

    We do have 2 stair gates, one on the front room door and one on the play room door where the cats are fed, problem is i have 4 young children so keeping the gate closed is fruitless most of the time.

    As for the Patterdales being not for beginners....i can see that lol! problem is when i got him he was labelled as a 'Lakeland Cockerdale' and i knew very little about him and the internet had no info whatsoever....and now i know he is mostly patterdale (in looks, size and behaviour) its still very hard to find info about these dogs other than stuff on hunting forums which is not helpful.

    I'm going to take some time reading your responses properly when i get the chance and will post back, thanks again :)
     
    #7 Glenbo, Apr 1, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  8. Marley boy

    Marley boy PetForums VIP

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    i will start by saying OMG he is cute. My advice would be start with the basics, crate training it fantastic for toilet training as mentioned before. Also go along to some basic training classes and once you have got the basic sit, leave and recall (which takes time) you will find it makes a huge difference. Each day is a new day and take it as it comes, you will have good days and bad days to begin with and what ever happened the previous day forget about it and start again. :D
     
  9. gizzmo341

    gizzmo341 PetForums Junior

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    i think your expecting too much out of a four month old pup, i don't mean that in a bad way
     
  10. Dogless

    Dogless PetForums VIP

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    Absolutely agree with working for everything; I do it for everything - sit and wait for food, lead to go on etc, varied commands for treats and toys etc etc. Sit and wait before I will open the baby gate to greet. I think that the constant training is a bonus, plus Kilo has mental stimulation and enjoyment too :)
     
  11. wynnpot

    wynnpot PetForums Junior

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    Sorry to say it but you didn't pick the right dog! What a mix for a first time owner!!!! HOWEVER! When there's a will there's a way, you should really invest money in a GOOD trainer/behaviourist, and I mean preferably 1-2-1 sessions rather than a puppy obedience class.
     
  12. RobD-BCactive

    RobD-BCactive PetForums VIP

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    The pushing away is a bad idea because a puppy misinterprets a push away as play and tends to get more excited and out of control not less.

    If you don't want dogs on sofas, you need to be consistent about it, and make sure the floor is interesting enough. They tend to want to be where everyone else is.
     
  13. Glenbo

    Glenbo PetForums Newbie

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    The 'Off' command and persistance is working a treat, i have been doing this non stop today since the accident, this was when i really had to start coming down on him harder, im far to soft with him.

    Us cat only owners are far to soft for dogs! so i need to learn to be much more ferm, i let him get away with murder.

    One other point i forgot to mention....and its probably the biggest one.

    Walking!

    he is a abosolute nightmare to walk, he drags his chain and leads, walking himself on 2 legs the whole walk, i try to keep him behind me to the point where the chain is cutting into my hand but its impossible for long periods of time.

    I'm thinking of getting him a extendable lead that i can shorten to try and keep him behind me or atleast along side me.

    Another thing is, he has never once gone toilet on his walks, he will do it in my back yard but never on a walk the whole time i have had him, its also hard to knwo when he wants to go toilet because he doesnt do the 'cock the leg up' thing, he just does it from standing.

    For the guy saying i have the wrong dog, yes i probably do but we love him and hes here for life, Patterdale information is non existent on the net so i'm learning everyday.

    Talk about me jumping in head first! :p
     
  14. wynnpot

    wynnpot PetForums Junior

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    Oi I'm not a bloke!

    Anyhoo, it's great that you're seeking help and not giving up. I still think you should get 121s with someone though. A person on a forum cannot demonstrate any training ideas and really assess your pup.
    Don't worry if he doesn't cock his leg - he's only 4 months!

    Maybe get a good thin (if he doesn't chew it) leather lead. they need wearing in but I personally think they're well worth it! you can get ones with Clips on so you can have it extended or shorter.

    There are lots of ideas about lead walking on there if you search the forum. It sounds like he is just one big ball of energy to me, and that you need to channel that. I would maybe stick a harness on him though so he doesn't choke himself which it sounds like he is probably doing
     
  15. Dogless

    Dogless PetForums VIP

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    In terms of walking; personally I do not like extendables as I think it teaches the dog that pulling = more lead = a very good thing. I think that a good class to give the foundations of loose lead walking is probably best. It has taken months of persistence to teach Kilo to walk on a loose lead; it takes huge resources of patience and I actually use a Dogmatic headcollar when I am short of time or go somewhere very exciting like into town or where there is a lot of stimulation as firstly Kilo is strong and can really try and pull and secondly I try and NEVER let him have a taught lead when he is just being walked on a flat collar.

    It is great that you are so committed to your dog; like you said, he probably isn't a 'good' first dog, but now you have him at least you are doing the best for him that you can.

    Oh, he doesn't cock his leg yet as he is too young and his hormones haven't come flooding in!!
     
  16. wynnpot

    wynnpot PetForums Junior

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    Also, before he does go to the toilet, there are usually signs. Not whether he lifts his leg up or not. Things like pacing, sniffing the floor alot etc.
     
  17. Glenbo

    Glenbo PetForums Newbie

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    Yeh he defintiely paces, we noticed that and we put him outside when he does, just can't see the signs when hes out walking.

    (by the way sorry about calling you a guy wynpott lol! :p )

    A harness sounds like a good idea, we had thought of doing that to because he literally walks on two legs when out on the lead, i mean to see it you would love it lol, hes hilarious to watch, hes deffo no hindrance to me, i just want to do right by him and be the best owner possible, his naughtyness is very cute also (except for the dumping on the floor...that bit aint cute lol)

    My friend is gettign a Bull Mastiff x Rottweiler pup soon, and we will be doing lots of walks together, maybe with his new 'bigger' friend, he might learn some doggy manners :p hes very cocky with big dogs, i have to keep him away from them most of the time because he winds them right up lol :p
     
  18. Dogless

    Dogless PetForums VIP

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    Just remember that what is 'cute' as a puppy may not remain so (and what is not yet a hinderance may become one) - don't let him do anything that you would not find acceptable in an adult dog. Also, your friend's pup is not likely to teach doggy manners as it won't have any itself. I know you don't want to spend money on classes but, honestly, it would be a sound investment.

    Have you undertaken plenty of controlled socialisation and introductions at all? I don't think that avoidance is the answer, as other dogs become even more exciting I think - I have worked really hard on getting Kilo to simply meet other dogs then walk on or to walk past without desperately wanting to get to them.

    You are right that having a puppy is hard work :p
     
  19. the melster

    the melster PetForums Senior

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    I know exactly where you're coming from ... meet Badger my 5 month Cocker x Lakeland Terrier

    [​IMG]

    We are lucky in the fact that Badger is our second Cocker x Terrier and we learnt a lot with Bo who is now the most fantastic dog but she was hard work as a pup.



    I almost gave Bo away when she was the same age as Brucey so I know where you are coming from. My advice would be:

    -enroll in a puppy class asap where they will help you address some of the issues especially with other dogs. This really is money well spent and you will get valuable hands on advice.
    -take away as many opportunites for him to be naughty as possible. He's a puppy, it's his job to test the boundaries. It is not forever but will pay dividends in the end. My house is still full of cardboard boxes blocking where I don't want Badger to go.
    -stop telling him off and go mad on the praise when he is being good (I mean like you are possessed). If he has something he shouldn't, get one of his toys and get him to take that instead and then praise like mad. He will respond to praise much more than being told off. This makes life a lot less stressful for both of you.

    I hope this has helped even if it is just to let you know that with firm consistant training cocker x terriers are fab dogs. :thumbup1:
     
  20. Irish Setter Gal

    Irish Setter Gal PetForums Senior

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    Firstly - he's adorable

    Secondly - he needs strong (not physical but mental) consistent direction. If you feel at your wits end already, crate him now to give both you and him time out, sure he'll shout the place down to start with because he's now being 'controlled', but he has to learn to earn all things in life.

    You can use the crate to your advantage in all the issues you mention, toilet training, respect, time out, and most importantly SAFETY.

    Leave a long line on him to prevent the chase games.

    Either let him on the sofa all the time (think about this, even when he's rolled in fox poo) or not at all = consistency

    Too much freedom can bring on the 'overtired' behaviour you see when children get like it - boundaries are needed by both. Decide on the boundaries you want and STICK to them = consistency.

    Play using his generalised breeding capabilities eg. hide and retrieve, tunnels to go through, exchange unwanted items for high value ones ie your best scarf for a meaty treat if he likes them.

    At all times - remember some of this behaviour is just being a puppy, if it gets too much, crate him for timeout and NOT crate him for punishment.

    Good luck, it is and will be tough to start with (first dog and all that) and you have a very lively breeding mix to work with - finally, find a class to go to, with or without the puppy you'll learn loads.
     
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