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Mini schnauzer with cushings and liver disease disgnosis

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by Vickyssm, Sep 13, 2018.


  1. Vickyssm

    Vickyssm PetForums Newbie

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    hi

    My 11yr old mini schnauzer was diagnosed with cushings disease in may, following various tests. Dry skin and hair loss was her only symptom. Over 7 weeks she was tested and re tested and was given vetoryl, nutramed liver supplement and hills prescription diet. 2 months later, after constant repeated blood tests, she was taken off the vetoryl as she was diagnosed with unrelated liver disease. During the last call from the vet, one of the enzymes was in the 2000 and the other in the 3000. They basically said her liver was so bad that there was nothing more they could do. I should continue with the diet and supplement. She now has multiple symptoms and 2 weeks ago was rushed to the vets with blood in her urine and vomiting. She was put onto antibiotics and is much better now. But since then she has been refusing the hepatic diet. She hasn’t ate the dry since her last vet visit and is now refusing the wet. I don’t know what to do. She had always been 10kg and was down to 7.8kg in may. She’s looking bigger now tho I suspect it’s fluid and not true weight gain. My vets are useless and if I ring for advice they will advise I take her in. She hates them and gets too stressed out. I would be very grateful if anyone can offer any advice re the diet, as well as anything else relating to her condition. Thank you.
     
  2. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    I'm so sorry to hear about your little girl. I have a Mini Schnauzer myself and know what smashing little dogs they are.

    I'm afraid I can't give you any help as it's way beyond my experience, but hopefully someone will come along who can. The only suggestion I can make is that you join the UK Schnauzer forum and the FB Schnauzer groups as you're more likely to find an owner who has had the same problem.

    In the meantime lots of hugs and prayers for you both.
     
  3. JoanneF

    JoanneF PetForums VIP

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  4. Vickyssm

    Vickyssm PetForums Newbie

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    Thank you for your swift response. I will join those groups as you suggested, I will go and look now. I’m desperate for help. Part of me thinks at this stage, feed her whatever she will eat but I’m concerned that I will cause her further pain as she can’t be given medication or painkillers. The vet more or less said, make her as comfortable as possible and bring her back when you’re ready to put her to sleep. I will never be ready for that! Thanks again.
     
  5. Vickyssm

    Vickyssm PetForums Newbie

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    Thank you.
     
  6. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    Like you I would be inclined to give her the food she likes and will eat. If she's anything like my boy she doesn't eat a large quantity of food anyway (unlike my Shar-Pei who has an appetite like a horse) so perhaps you could cook things like chicken breasts and rice or other things that are easy to digest?

    Are you giving her Milk Thistle which is excellent for detoxifying and supporting the liver? Here's an article explaining its benefits

    https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/milk-thistle-for-your-dog/
     
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  7. Happy Paws

    Happy Paws PetForums VIP

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    No advise, just to let you know, I know how you feel looking after a poorly dog and my thoughts are with you.
     
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  8. Vickyssm

    Vickyssm PetForums Newbie

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    Thank you
     
  9. Vickyssm

    Vickyssm PetForums Newbie

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    Yes, she is on a milk thistle supplement tho im currently looking into something better than what she’s currently on as she can only take half capsule per day.
     
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  10. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    I don't know whether this will be any help, but I just remembered years ago I used to order Milk thistle and other remedies from Native Remedies who used to be based in Jersey. Due to a change in the law unfortunately the company had to close down and their products were only obtainable from the US.

    Looking online today I see that Natural Remedies 4U now sell their products and amongst them I found this for Cushings Disease

    https://naturalremedies4u.co.uk/pet...ml-natural-remedy-for-adrenal-health-in-dogs/

    I haven't looked yet but maybe they do Milk Thistle in either a powder or liquid form?

    https://naturalremedies4u.co.uk/pet-health
     
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  11. Vickyssm

    Vickyssm PetForums Newbie

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    Magyarmum.......I’m struggling to respond to you. Keeps telling me it’s spam and won’t let me post!
     
  12. lullabydream

    lullabydream PetForums VIP

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    For liver problems food needs the be low protein. So technically it doesn't have to be prescription diet. I used Burns to manage an undisclosed liver problem for many years. It's the lowest protein food available.
     
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  13. Vickyssm

    Vickyssm PetForums Newbie

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    Burns has been mentioned a few times now. Is there any particular type/flavour I should look at? I gave her fresh, cooked chicken last night, just to see if she was off all food and it was gone within seconds. She’s never been especially keen on any dog food. During her life, we have rotated between science plan, Royal Canin and James well beloved ( that’s the only one with different flavours) as she gets bored with them. She won’t touch the prescription diet now, not even the tins. I’m willing to try anything and desperate to get her to eat.
     
  14. Vickyssm

    Vickyssm PetForums Newbie

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    I went onto the burns website after reading your comment. A lady on the site, messaged me and we discussed my dogs diagnosis. What a fab company. They are going to send me loads of info and samples of the foods to try that contain the lowest protein. So thanks for that information.
     
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  15. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    If you don't mind cooking for her try looking on Pinterest for Low fat recipes for dogs with Liver Disease

    https://hu.pinterest.com/pin/462181980493491581/?lp=true

    I feed my dogs on a homecooked diet and my "bible" is a book called "Raw and Natural Nutrition" by Lew Olson Ph.D. It has low fat, low glycemic recipes for dogs suffering from Cushings. I bought mine from The Book Depository and I think it cost about £10.
     
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  16. Vickyssm

    Vickyssm PetForums Newbie

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    Thanks, I will look into that. I’m hoping this message sends as yesterday I couldn’t couldn’t respond to you. No idea why.
    I’m gonna try a bit of everything. She now eats 4 meals a day and Im hoping to alternate between home cooked and pet food. We have a holiday home and as we now can’t take her, she will be left with my daughter. She’s 26 but a terrible cook. If she will continue to eat some dog food, it will be easier. Not that I’ve left her yet, since her condition deteriorated.
     
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  17. lullabydream

    lullabydream PetForums VIP

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    The liver cleansing diet is really the only home cooked recipe I would recommend for a dog with liver disease. It's found on epilepsy guardian website.

    Glad Burns are helpful they used to advocate their food as alternative to prescription diet

    You are doing everything right feeding little and often. So not to over load the digestive system. Helps to prevent build up of toxins which is vital to prevent hepatic encephalopathy

    Sometimes lactulose is used too to try and prevent hepatic encephalopathy. It's not to rush the digestive system just slightly speed things up. Especially if a dog is going on and off their food toxins are likely to rise and a hence an increase risk with hepatic encephalopathy.

    If your dog is already on a liver support there shouldn't be any reason to change. Giving more of the same will just be typical waste product per se. They do help my dog certainly went from extremely poorly at times to a dog which was completely normal.
     
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  18. Vickyssm

    Vickyssm PetForums Newbie

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    Thank you. I’m more than happy to try the home cooked diet. She has always favoured real food over dog food, despite the vet telling me they have no preference. All I can say to that is, she’s either an uninformed vet or she’s never had a dog! Ive been researching the best foods for her liver. White fish, chicken, some veg, rice and pasta so far, as well as scrambled eggs (which she loves) but I’m reading some conflicting views so will dig a bit deeper with that. My only real concern is, about 6 years ago she had issues with her anal glands that lasted months. At that time, she was on science plan dry and a small wet food pouch for her breakfast. We were advised to feed her dry food only after that. A couple of years ago I started giving her the breakfast pouch again as she loved them, and her glands haven’t bothered her since. The milk thistle that she’s on, nutramed, is a half capsule per day and I’ve read that it’s more beneficial to give it twice per day. I won’t give her both. She only has 3 caps left so will change to the new one next week. The vets told me there was nothing more to give her. I have her on vitamins and supplements and apart from them, that’s it. She was on antibiotics for 10 days, prescribed 3 weeks ago. Out of nowhere, she got extremely poorly with blood in her urine and vomiting. The antibiotics were v low dose but seemed to help. The blood in her urine and vomiting stopped the same day as it started. She had also had a small graze on her paw pad since June that didn’t heal. We bought her special shoes and checked it daily but it just wouldn’t heal. Another symptom of her condition, vit k and blood clotting issues. Since the antibiotics, her foot has healed. She’s had more of the chicken today, that I cooked for her last night and she wolfed it. So she’s definitely still got her appetite, which is such a relief.
     
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  19. lullabydream

    lullabydream PetForums VIP

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    Usually as support for liver conditions steroids are given however with the cushings I guess it's a balancing act. The management we used in flare ups which were severe and my dog Poppy would practically be skeletal after maybe missing a meal or two was; steroids, antibiotics, lactulose and liver support. Along with the low protein food which she had all the time and food little and often. It's basic care for liver support.

    We used denanarin liver support which you can buy yourself. Several people who have come here in similar circumstances have already used it or was suggested to use it. So it's up to you whether you look in to that. It's often recommended by the veterinary profession
     
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  20. Vickyssm

    Vickyssm PetForums Newbie

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    Yes, with the cushings as well, it is a balancing act. When the vetoryl was withdrawn, the vet had approached the makers about doing her a special low dose. They refused as they said her liver was far too fragile for any meds. It turned out that the 10 weeks she was on it, her body stored it which made her v poorly. They also believe that it’s a separate condition to the cushings, they usually come hand in hand. Once the cushings is under control, the liver often returns to near normal. The liver enzymes continued to rise with each test (twice weekly at one point). she couldn’t have the denamarin, it needs to be given before food and she wouldn’t take it. The milk thistle she takes is a powder, sprinkled on her food. It has the same ingredients as denamarin. She was given a low dose antibiotic for blood in her urine, 3 weeks ago and I’m sure she’s better than she was. I read a lot, probably too much but read earlier that when there’s no obvious cause for liver disease, a broad spectrum anti biotic should always be given (incase there’s an undetected infection). It could be coincidental but she seems better to me and has perked up no end since I started giving her chicken yesterday.
     
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