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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just took M&M out for a walk. All was going well until an offlead dog appeared with his owner behind, and as it got closer, I recognised it as one we'd met yesterday, who frankly made such a pest of himself that both me and Milly shooed him off (Max was much more interested in a scent on the grass), his owner telling me he was friendly - yes, but my onlead dog is clearly nervous, so will you PLEASE get your dog under control? :rolleyes:

Anyway, that was yesterday. Tonight, owner kept said the same thing about his dog being friendly. This time, my 2 were in a sit-stay. Then the dog got right into Max's face and wouldn't budge. Max put up with it for a few seconds, then chased him off in no uncertain terms, barking, but came back as soon as the other dog got the message and as I called him. No snarling, no lip curling, no growling, no pinning the other dog down, no screaming/yelping from the other dog that suggested Max had bitten/attacked him.

Owner then said "It's yours. It's your's that's vicious". :( To be fair, he couldn't see his dog get into Max's face, because I was between Max/the other guy's dog, and the owner.

He's the 2nd person recently to label Max as aggressive, but critically, he's also the 2nd person who hasn't seen what his own dog was doing prior to Max's reaction. Maybe I'm in denial and Max is aggressive, but my initial response was if the owner had have gotten into my face the way his dog got into Max's, I'd have belted him one, probably with the flexi leads - never mind chasing him and then going my own way.

Don't know if there's a point to this thread really. Just feeling down about the whole thing. I'm going to see if there's any local training sessions that I can take Max to, for socialisation and possibly for a trainer to give me a better idea as to whether Max needs to be onlead and muzzled. I'd get a behaviourist in, but atm I'm only getting SSP so can't afford it atm.
 

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From what you've said above it doesn't sound to me like your Max has any aggression issues at ALL... just that he was telling a very rude dog to bugger off out of it in the only way he knows how.

If you see them again I would tell the owner to get his dog under control and away from yours now and then your dog won't have to tell him in doggy language to 'piss off'.

There are none so blind as those who won't see :rolleyes:
 

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Kilo chased a spaniel off growling at him the other week. The spaniel had run up, had a posture and stare and then barked in Kilo's face. I saw it as appropriate behaviour and he too left off when asked and didn't go back 'looking for trouble' so it didn't worry me. Thankfully the spaniel owner just apologised to me and said her boy could be 'iffy'.
 

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Just sounds to me like Max telling a rude dog who's invaded his space to bugger off. I don't see that as aggressive. Okay so maybe he wouldn't be the ideal candidate for a dog park if he doesn't like other dogs getting in his face but I think that's a far cry from vicious.

I muzzled Rupert because if another dog approached him he would attack it with every intention of doing serious harm. Nor would he stop the attack until forcibly removed. I didn't muzzle Shadow who would put on big, noisy, toothy displays when other dogs forgot their manners but wouldn't actually harm them.
 

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My lot do this quite alot around rude dogs with inattentive owners!:rolleyes: Its not the least bit aggressive, merely one dog telling another to **** off!
I certainly wouldnt listen to anything the 'its ok, he's friendly!' brigade have to say.;)
 

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I agree with Bessie (again :rolleyes:) some people have a very uneducated view of what vicious is, I probably did to some degree before I started reading up about dog language. People think Ginge is aggressive, she certainly sounds it :eek: and she has snapped at a few dogs, and me :(, but I am pretty sure she isn't, my trainers don't think she is and most of the time if allowed to she just wants to play, (hope the behaviorist can confirm this next tuesday) she is just nervous and excited. I understand how you feel completely though it does get you down (and I get all indignant :mad: as well).

ETA I also agree with everyone else who managed to post in the time it took me :p
 
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Your dog was not being aggressive. If he did that to mine then it would serve mine right for being rude. But then of course I would say sorry lots for him charging over and being a general pain in the arse!
 

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No, doesn't sound aggressive at all to me, any more than I am aggressive if I tell someone in the street to stop shouting at me and leave me alone!

Dres is much the same. He is often harassed by other dogs who's owners don't see it as a problem when their dogs are annoying mine. Thankfully hes quite a submissive and tolerant dog with others of his own kind, but he has his limits.
He was being bombed by a dog at the park today, just wouldn't leave him alone, and as usual, the owner didn't care.
He tolerated it for a fairly long time before finally turning around and giving a serious bark, bark, bark.
And of course, the owner rolls his eyes at us :rolleyes:

Its frustrating that some people think any dog that doesn't put up with absolutely anything and everything, no matter how rude or scary, is 'aggressive'.
With me having the breed I do, too, its always my dog who is labelled as aggressive, when he's just trying to mind his own business and being constantly harassed by others.
Sadly, I have this problem more with small breeds and their owners than large dogs. Not all little dogs, but if its going to happen to Dres, its a small breed most of the time :(

I never let Dres bother other dogs who clearly don't want to be bothered.
If I had kids, I wouldn't let them approach and bother anyone they wanted to, either!
 

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It doesn't sound to me like Max is aggressive. He's just telling the other dogs to bugger off. My Kite does the same. As long as there's no biting, snarling, pinning or acting without provocation, it's not proper aggression.

With Kite, I'm aware of what triggers her, and try to step in first and deal with the other dog myself. I don't want her reactions to escalate which I think could happen, as she's probably a bit over-confident and full of herself.
 

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He tolerated it for a fairly long time before finally turning around and giving a serious bark, bark, bark.
And of course, the owner rolls his eyes at us :rolleyes:

With me having the breed I do, too, its always my dog who is labelled as aggressive, when he's just trying to mind his own business and being constantly harassed by others.
Interesting...I usually get the eye roll too!:rolleyes: I dont have an evil aggressive 'devil dog' though. Apparently mine are just too nervous coz they are handbag dogs and I never let them play (get chased and bulldozed) properly with other dogs coz Im a panicky Paris Hilton type!!:mad2:

Seems like ratdogs and devildogs are both misunderstood!LOL:D
 

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Interesting...I usually get the eye roll too!:rolleyes: I dont have an evil aggressive 'devil dog' though. Apparently mine are just too nervous coz they are handbag dogs and I never let them play (get chased and bulldozed) properly with other dogs coz Im a panicky Paris Hilton type!!:mad2:

Seems like ratdogs and devildogs are both misunderstood!LOL:D
Yeah, I can understand that!
The other day, I was talking to another dog owner about how Dres isn't the kind of dog who plays much with others. He's more ball orientated, and if he does try to play with another, its always under close supervision, and after he's had time to get used to them.
As I said this, Dres spotted a dog in the distance, on lead, and began to trot toward it. I called him back, because I don't like him approaching on-lead dogs for obvious reasons.
And she says 'thats why he doesn't play; you don't let him!'

I then had to explain how I do let him play, just not with on-lead dogs, and not if he is going to approach them like a loony, with barking and bouncing.
Im happy for him to play, but respectfully, and in a way I'd want others to let their dog play with mine, not as a complete free for all!

I think some people think they should just be left to get on with it, there should be no rules, no boundaries, and all dogs should run free and play with whoever they choose. In an ideal world, yep. But sadly, its not an ideal world, and I not only don't want my dog getting in trouble, but I don't want him bothering anyone else who isn't interested either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks guys. I knew I'd get a straight answer from people who actually know dogs, as opposed to those who think they do - whether it was "yes, your dog has a problem" or, as it's turned out, "Your Max was just telling the other dog to bugger off".

This is why I recall him from other dogs as they pass, practicing sit-stay or, if necessary, clipping his lead back on. At least I do actively practice control over him, rather than allow him to just approach any dog he feels like and do nothing about it other than blather on about how friendly he is.

I'm annoyed that I let the owner get to me tonight tbh, because normally I don't listen to the "It's OK, s/he's friendly" brigade, but if Max did have a problem, I'd rather address it and take measures to protect other dogs than allow my aggressive dog to approach. Especially as Max has been on the receiving end of an attack by a "friendly" dog.

I have to wonder if they'd have the same consideration . . . Probably not. :(
 

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I agree with the others... he's just saying go away, Tilly does this sometimes, especially with little persistent dogs who want to stick their head up her bottom.. she doesn't mind big dogs, she tries to move away & then they follow her & she tells them off, she has even pinned one or 3 down but never bitten or .anything, she's very social with other dogs,I got so worried I started putting her onlead if we saw a little dog... adding all my nervous tension down the lead actually made her worse & as if she wanted to have at go at them anyway (my fault) so I spoke to a behaviourist who told me clicker distraction from the dog that's annoying her & rewarding with a treat may be more effective than putting her back onlead & that's what I've been doing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
I agree with the others... he's just saying go away, Tilly does this sometimes, especially with little persistent dogs who want to stick their head up her bottom.. she doesn't mind big dogs, she tries to move away & then they follow her & she tells them off, she has even pinned one or 3 down but never bitten or .anything, she's very social with other dogs,I got so worried I started putting her onlead if we saw a little dog... adding all my nervous tension down the lead actually made her worse & as if she wanted to have at go at them anyway (my fault) so I spoke to a behaviourist who told me clicker distraction from the dog that's annoying her & rewarding with a treat may be more effective than putting her back onlead & that's what I've been doing.
Thanks for that Tillymint. :thumbup: Once money allows, I think I might get a behaviourist in, even if for no other reason than to to cover my own back and protect him. At least then, if/when others call him aggressive I can turn around and say something along the lines of "I've had him assessed by a canine behaviourist, who said he isn't, so it's not him with the problem" before walking off :D
 

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Thanks for that Tillymint. :thumbup: Once money allows, I think I might get a behaviourist in, even if for no other reason than to to cover my own back and protect him. At least then, if/when others call him aggressive I can turn around and say something along the lines of "I've had him assessed by a canine behaviourist, who said he isn't, so it's not him with the problem" before walking off :D
I knew putting her back onlead was wrong as it was making it worse, just couldn't think what else to do... & it turned out really simple! Sometimes it's a case of going back to basics & treating/rewarding, but if it works its all good:D
 

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Be thankful you dont live by me! Max would be branded a killer dog and a witch hunt would be started!

He doesnt sound aggressive to me. Dottie has been polite with dogs then theyve jumped on her head and then she tells them off, then shes The Devil with Dots and oh-so nasty blah blah blah heard it all before, do go shove it up your backside as Ive had enough!
 

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Ach, people have labelled Jake aggressive because he dared to tell their rude dog off (who are usually either bouncing on his head, getting up in his face and not letting him past, and the biggest telling off ever was to one dog who tried to mount him)... I just ignore them now. I have learned that the majority of dog owners have no clue about dog behaviour and therefore cannot tell the difference between a dog telling another one to back off and one who is about to bite/attack another dog.

Jake has never bitten another dog (he has tried to when other dogs have attacked him, but that is to get the dog off and as soon as they are, he runs for the hills) but he is more than comfortable to tell an inappropriate dog off... yet, people still blame him :rolleyes: the noises he makes doesn't help, but I just ignore them all now. I couldn't care less anymore.
 
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