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Looking to start feeding my dogs raw!

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by xdayle, Feb 9, 2012.


  1. xdayle

    xdayle PetForums Member

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    Have been browsing this forum for a good few days now, researching the diet and everything but would like someone to just confirm if my understanding is correct!

    I have a 30kg greyhound, 11kg beagle and a 9kg terrier cross, and I THINK i've worked out they will need about 1.5kg of meat per day.
    I'm thinking of bulk buying minced meats from Durham Animal Feeds, and then buying offal such as heart, kidney, liver, and bones, veg, eggs etc from supermarkets and local butchers.
    Would that cover all the areas I need to feed them? And does it seem like a good way to do it?
    I'm looking to do it as cheap as possible while providing my dogs with good nutrition. I'm 6 months pregnant and looking to make feeding easy too to prepare myself for when i've got little 'un around to care for too.

    Any advice is appreciated :)
    Thank you!
     
  2. kate_7590

    kate_7590 PetForums VIP

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    Hi.
    Iv started feeding raw, its great! Iv already seen a difference in my dogs so would never go back :)

    I order from DAF, I ordered just chicken and tripe the first month to keep it easy.
    I also bought liver and kidney and worked out it would last 3-4 months, which worked out much simpler and easier than getting from supermarkets.

    Heart, as far as I know is classed as meat, not offal.

    I try and feed a mince/meat meal in the mornings and a boney meal in the evening. I have found this suits me and my dogs really well, but you'll find your own way. :)

    I don't feed any veg, but do throw a raw egg in once a week.

    I feed approx 2% to 2 of my dogs and 3% to the other.

    Hope I helped a bit, I am still very new to this raw stuff so Im sure someone else will be more help :D

    Best of luck .
     
  3. Goldstar

    Goldstar PetForums VIP

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    You may find this site helpful when first starting out How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw

    It doesn't mention veg in the above link but you could add those in anytime I would imagine :)
     
  4. Manoy Moneelil

    Manoy Moneelil PetForums VIP

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    Your figures and ideas seem to be on the right track.

    Chicken carcasses (inc necks) provide some good bone and meat for doggies.

    With the kids we are forever reminding to wash hands when handling dogs and their food, something to consider when bump arrives. So Bagging up meal portions in the freezer allows you to have one 'dirty' session and then an easier life when you defrost (then slightly pre-warm) and serve, as fridge-cold meat is not interesting to some dogs. See how they go.

    Keep a food diary for at least for a week or so to monitor their progress and allow you to manage portion size and weight gain/loss.

    Best of luck for bump and those lucky dogs.
     
  5. xdayle

    xdayle PetForums Member

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    My boyfriend works in morrisons and can grab the offal when its discounted on a late evening as and when we need it so we can fit more minced meats in the freezer that way. Thanks for letting me know about the heart!
    Hes also got a mate who works on the fish counter so he'll try get his hands on some fish for me too.

    Also I was going to do only one meal a day - on an evening when i've got more time to do it.
    I just worry that I'm not going to get the ratios right and I want to make sure i do it properly!
     
  6. Kc Mac

    Kc Mac PetForums Senior

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    As the others have already said, it sounds like you're organised and have it sorted :thumbsup:

    I only feed my dogs once a day and they do well on it :)

    Also don't worry too much about ratios, it does just seem to fall into place :)
     
  7. terencesmum

    terencesmum PetForums VIP

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    The ratios don't have to be right every day. For example, this morning Terence had a very boney meal and then tonight, he'll have some chicken hearts, so no offal for him today. It just has to be right over 3 weeks. :)
     
  8. SLB

    SLB PetForums VIP

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    Firstly - Kate, excellent info from a newbie (not that I'm an expert) :p

    I feed only once a day, I don't have a set menu, I order monthly so get the ratio's right for the month. Then I'm very much a grab what I can reach in the freezer and chuck it at them kinda person.. it's so much easier that way! But I was a newbie, still am, and I know how worrying it can be.
     
  9. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    Quantities

    For adults approximately 2 - 3% of their bodyweight per day. Calculate this by multiplying 2/3 by your dog's weight and dividing it by 100.

    Eg 2 x 30kg/100 = 600g, 3 x 30kg/100 = 900g.

    For puppies feed circa 10% of their present bodyweight or 2-3% of their projected adult weight per day.

    However be guided by your hand and eye; if the dog is looking a little too ribby up the amount and reduce if the dog is looking a little too well padded! Dogs will vary on their requirements depending on age, sex, activity level, temperament and time of year etc.

    Frequency

    Adult dogs should be fed twice a day for the following reasons:
    • To minimise the risk of Bloat/GDV
    • To avoid blood sugar fluctuations

    Meats

    Lamb, beef, chicken, turkey, rabbit, pork, venison, duck, hare, and/or anything you can get your hands on; some dogs regularly chow down on more exotic species.

    Dogs require the correct calcium:phosphorus ratio and so it is essential to feed raw meaty bones (RMBs) as well as muscle meat.

    Offal such as hearts, lungs, kidneys, tripe, liver is also essential; some offal is muscle such as heart (like tongue) but ALL offal is also meat.

    Fish

    Oily fish such as pilchards, mackerel, sardines, etc provide a good source of Omega 3; if it is difficult to obtain fresh, then tinned makes a good substitute. Tuna may contain high levels of mercury and is a less valuable source of Omega 3.

    Vegetables

    Onions must not be fed to dogs in any form as they can cause haemolytic anaemia which can be fatal. Avocados contain persin which can produce problems in some animals.

    All other vegetables may be fed however, for a dog to get any nutritional benefit from vegetables, they must either be pulped or frozen, otherwise they go out the way they went in and can only be used as source of fibre.

    Oxalic acid can interfere with calcium absorption; so don't feed too much of Spinach or Chard.

    Care should also be taken not to overfeed vegetables from the cruciferous family eg cabbage, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, kale, swedes, turnips and broccoli to dogs as this may inhibit thyroid function.

    Tomatoes, potatoes, peppers and aubergines all belong to the nightshade family of plants. Dogs who have arthritis may be sensitive to these foods which may exacerbate their condition. It is doubtful if raw potato can be digested successfully in any case.

    Garlic is a useful addition to the diet as it performs an antiseptic, antibiotic, antifungal function.

    Fruit

    All except grapes (and raisins) which can cause kidney failure and death in even very small amounts. Bananas are an excellent source of pre-biotics essential for gut health.

    Bear in mind fruit and/or vegetables should not make up more than 10% of diet and can have a laxative effect!

    Vegetables and fruit provide many phytonutrients not available from animal sources some of which we as yet do not understand but some of which are thought to have health benefits such a carotenoids, lycopene, flavonoids, indoles, sulforaphanes, anthcyanins, sterols, elegiac acid and lignans

    Kelp (seaweed) and alfalfa (lucerne) are examples of green supplements which provide a wide range of vitamins, minerals and neutraceuticals.

    Dairy

    No animal post weaning consumes milk bar humans however live yoghurt can be very useful for poorly stomachs because of its probiotic content provided that dogs are not intolerant to lactose (milk sugar) and casein (milk protein). As puppies leave their dams equipped with a full set of teeth bones are a more appropriate source of calcium.

    Eggs can be given raw each day, the shells are good sources of calcium but only when powdered, otherwise they merely provide roughage.

    Grains/cereals
    There is no proven need for carbohydrates in the dog’s diet and of course these need to be cooked before they can be successfully digested by the canine.

    Books (in order of simplicity/accessibility)

    • Switching to Raw by Sue Johnson
    • Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats by Kymythy Schulze CCN
    • Raw & Natural Nutrition for Dogs by Lew Olson PhD
    • The Barf Diet by Ian Billingshurst B.V.Sc (Hons)
    • Give your Dog a Bone by Ian Billingshurst B.V.Sc (Hons)
    • Grow your pups with Bones by Ian Billingshurst B.V.Sc (Hons)
    • Work Wonders by Tom Lonsdale (vet)
    • Raw Meaty Bones by Tom Lonsdale (vet)

    Websites - Britbarf, K9nutrition yahoo groups the first is UK the second is an excellent US site run by Lew Olson,
     
  10. xdayle

    xdayle PetForums Member

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    see post number 13 - have put my questions there :)
     
    #10 xdayle, Feb 10, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2012
  11. xdayle

    xdayle PetForums Member

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    see post 13 - put all questions there :)
     
    #11 xdayle, Feb 10, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2012
  12. purrr

    purrr PetForums Senior

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    i raw feed mine and i dont bother with veg, i get my meat for the dogs from my local butchers as beef hearts are cheaper at £2.99 also they do some great sized ham shanks for 2£ and then a kg of mixed meat thats been minced up for 50p then all i gotta do is buy some lambs ribs from the supermarket (always get the ones that have been put on reduced) freeze them and there you go, just a few pointers...
    1.. freeze meat for at least 24 hrs just so it kills anything that might be in it
    2.. keep on top of your dogs wormer (i dont know if its just my 2 but iv noticed if i miss a wormer then within a few days they start to show signs of worms, and only since raw feeding, and it ain't the raw food as i only feed them stuff that we can eat)
    3.. keep an eye on how much bone you do give, to much can make it hard for them to toilet but to little could give them the runs
    4.. just give raw eggs once a week (mine like the shell to) or they WILL have the runs

    then just feed and enjoy as once you get the hang of it, it is sooo much better and easyer plus dogs poop less on raw so less to clean up out of the garden, thats always the best bit i think lol and good luck
     
  13. xdayle

    xdayle PetForums Member

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    Just going to do a post on the questions i have so its easier if anyone can answer them for me :)

    1. I was going to get an under counter freezer - how much would i be able to fit in this? I was going to order 3 lots of the bulk buy mince from DAF - so it'd be 180lb. Just not sure if it will all fit!

    2. For the main make up of the diet for the first month I was just going to order minced chicken and minced tripe to get the dogs used to it - will this be ok as I know it's not a great variation of meats?

    3. As for the raw bones - is this just any meat with a bone in it? apart from weight bearing bones from large animals etc.


    Thank youuu :)
     
  14. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    How old are your dogs? Young dogs/pups find it easier to cope with raw bones for the first time ime, older dogs *can* skimp on the chewing and bolt bones, not bad if they're used to a raw diet, but when it's new their digestive system is used to coping with kibble or tinned stuff.

    If they've never had raw before, I'd suggest you replace three or four meals per week with chicken or turkey, and see how they get on. In the meantime, get suppliers and freezer space sorted out, and if they're ok with the raw chicken/turkey, switch them over onto a green tripe and chicken/turkey based diet, then add in new protein sources one by one. A minority of dogs do have problems with some raw meats, chicken and green tripe seem to be easy on the stomach for the vast majority, which is why I always suggest taking things slowly and possibly a little more cautious than hardened raw feeders would. Once they're switched over, you can add in different meats, and leave a few days inbetween the new proteins, switching back to chicken/tripe, to see how they cope. It will take a couple of months to switch over at that sort of pace, but hopefully, you won't have any tummy upsets along the way, and if you do, you should have a pretty good idea what has caused it. If you start a diet with a variety of seven or eight different protein sources straight away, and then two days in one dog has a problem, next day another dog has a problem, how would you know what caused it ;)

    There's a sticky at the top of this section that's well worth having a read through btw :)
     
  15. xdayle

    xdayle PetForums Member

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    I have 2 at almost 6 and 1 at 3 years old. They've had odd bits of raw chicken before and loved it, but I think I'm going to do it slowly as you said and just start with chicken first. Thank you
     
  16. terencesmum

    terencesmum PetForums VIP

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    For the boney component, I started Terence on chicken wings. They are soft and easy do digest. If you are very unsure about how they'd cope with that, try bashing the wings up a bit. The first time Terence ate a raw wing, I nearly died with anxiety, but he did well. Now, he doesn't even chew them anymore. :w00t:

    Also, re the egg advice: Not all dogs WILL get the runs if they have more than 1 egg a week. As with everything, it really depends on the dog. ;)
     
  17. Goldstar

    Goldstar PetForums VIP

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    Lucky sometimes has 2 raw eggs per week and is fine :) .... she also needs a lot of boneless meat in her diet to prevent contipation
     
  18. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    My two have a raw egg daily and have done so for 7 and 11 years, no problems.
     
  19. xdayle

    xdayle PetForums Member

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    thanks for the advice, taking it all on board :)

    has anyone got any advice RE: the freezer? how much frozen stuff do people manage to fit in their freezer?
     
  20. Goldstar

    Goldstar PetForums VIP

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    As Lucky is a small dog I manage to get about 2 weeks worth of food in our small freezer, I buy hers fortnightly from morrissons and re pack it into single meal sized portions in individual freezer bags.
     
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