[messyhearts]

I am on first in line on a waiting list for a show potential kitten with a certain breeder. This breeder's queen had her litter little over a week ago and had three boys. She sent me a photo of the babies & said (obviously) we can only hope we get some potential in that mix. She said she has asked her friend to keep her eyes open for any potential in her litters too. If this is the friend I think she is referring to (I didn't enquire) then she has two litters with seven kittens between them so ten in total all born within a week of each other.

As a result, them being so young, it is a big waiting game. Waiting for the colours, then the potential. I don't mind if these don't have the potential as I can wait or look elsewhere.

However, I have found a cattery that has a show potential kitten ready mid-July who is gorgeous & really sounds perfect. He's from what I think is a good show cattery as I recognise the prefix from show results.

What do I do? Can I turn down this waiting list (I know she has four people waiting for these three kittens) or is that rude? I don't want to wait for these ten babies to grow up with no potential & to have missed this opportunity. I don't want to annoy the original breeder as I liked her a lot & my mum has shown an interest in a pet only Birman whom I think she would be ideal for!

I have already asked to see this boy as that could decide for me that I want to wait but it could make me want to pick him! I'm in no rush at all but I don't want to miss opportunities, if that makes sense. How would you feel as a breeder if this happened to someone showing interest?

I'm probably reading too deeply into this. My sister & fiance say go for him.

 

[Elmstar]

It happens all the time so I wouldn't worry if I were you. Just let her know you've found a suitable cat elsewhere. As a breeder you get used to it.

 

[bichonsrus]

At the end of the day you should get what you want, not because you feel you owe someone as it will be with you for the rest of its life. Please do let the other breeder know as soon as possible so they can find someone else to buy the kitten as there is nothing worse not being told and only to find out when its ready to go, (yes ive been a victim to that lol). hope all goes well.

 

[tilsie]

As I breeder I wouldn't feel put out at all. The kittens are very young and my all turn out for some reason or other not to be show quality. The eye colour could be bad, mouth off these, coat colour not good enough things cannot be predicted at such a young age and a good breeder will now and appreciate this.

If you have the opportunity of this boy go and have a look but keep an open mind and don't fall for him just because he is cute, they all are, keep in mind he has to be as good as possible at this stage in his life. No breeder can guarantee a kitten will excel at shows so please don't be fooled by ones that say they can.

Good Luck.

 

[Taylorbaby]

I wouldnt feel put put, its a 'waiting list' for a reason, it isnt binding, as long as you give them notice then its fine!

Cant wait for piccis!

 

[messyhearts]

At the end of the day you should get what you want, not because you feel you owe someone as it will be with you for the rest of its life. Please do let the other breeder know as soon as possible so they can find someone else to buy the kitten as there is nothing worse not being told and only to find out when its ready to go, (yes ive been a victim to that lol). hope all goes well.

No, you're quite right.

Though if I did wait for this original litter, I would only take home a kitten I wanted. I wouldn't otherwise. It's whether or not I get this chance with this litter when there is a chance already in front of me.

I'll see the boy on Saturday & ask some questions. Any suggestions as to what to ask?

 

[myrkari]

Ask to see mum (and dad if he lives there) - also if the breeder has any other "relatives" of your potential kitten in the house, i.e. s/he kept back a kitten from mum or dad before, then you can see the general type of the lines in person. A show quality half-brother or a stunning mum and dad doesn't mean this boy will automatically be good, of course - but you can see the type that the breeder is aiming towards.

Ask whether the breeder is keeping a kitten from the litter, also - and whether it's for showing or breeding. If the breeder is keeping a kitten for him/herself for showing, it's bound to be the pick of the litter - and while second best might still be better than a whole lot of other cats, fantastic even, if you want perfection...well, second best is second best.

Ask the breeder to highlight what s/he thinks this kitten's strongest and weakest points are, too. I don't know whether you're new to showing or you're an old hand but if you're new then it will help you understand your potential new cat's strengths and what to look for in competition, maybe what judges to try and get your cat under at shows (personal taste in styles etc). And if you're a show veteran and didn't need that knowledge, then having the breeder do a bit of impromptu 'judging' will help you evaluate whether the breeder really thinks the kitten's a potential showstopper or is just selling you something "pretty good" - if they can't string a sentence together about his looks then maybe he's not for you... but if they can wax lyrical for half an hour about his ear-set or the shape of his paws or the green of his eyes... :thumbsup:

Take some pics if you can, too! We want to see this special boy

 

[Saikou]

If you are looking for something specific, then you have to go for it the minute you find it. Any reasonable breeder would understand that, especially as the litter are so young. If the kittens were 11/12 weeks old and you had changed your mind is another thing.

How would you feel if you pass up the opportunity for the older boy, only to find none of the kittens in the younger litter have show potential ?

That said, even with the old kitten there are no guarantees, so never fulfill their early potential, others far exceed it.

 

[messyhearts]

I think if the young litter showed potential I would be disappointed if I went for the older boy. Not that I would regret him but that if I had gone with the younger one I would have been there the whole time.

Having said that, about them being so young, I was asked this week about preferences as it appears the original breeder is already trying to home them. I would have thought if someone has a litter & they don't show potential either way just yet you would wait then offer the show potentials in order of the waiting list for shows & offer pet homes the pets.

Right?

 

[Taylorbaby]

I offered pref to people who want 2 kittens as I like them to go together

It also depends if the breeder is breeding a litter of show quality and wants them to be shown, if they Are I think pref would go to show breeders, if they arent then pet homes?

Have you decided what to do yet??

 

[Saikou]

Having said that, about them being so young, I was asked this week about preferences as it appears the original breeder is already trying to home them. I would have thought if someone has a litter & they don't show potential either way just yet you would wait then offer the show potentials in order of the waiting list for shows & offer pet homes the pets.

Right?

If I had someone waiting for a show potential kitten, then I would hang on to those that I thought had potential to see how they matured. I certainly wouldn't look at a 4/5 week old and see guaranteed show potential and expect a person to make a decision about them there and then. If someone wants to show then they deserve the best that you can offer, and if that means waiting to make sure then so be it. Those people that want to show your kittens are doing you a favour.

That said, I have never understood these breeders that have to have homes for the kittens the minute they are born, and start demanding people choose at some ridiculously young age. Show potential aside, I like to ensure I know what kind of temperament they have and match them to the right homes, not just a first come first served basis.

 

[messyhearts]

I'm going to see the boy on Saturday & try not to fall in love because he's a kitten & older.

The original said in her email it would be another couple of weeks before she can, from her 20yrs of experience, guess if there will be potential. I don't want to string either along so I guess Saturday is deciding time.

I also think I am paying waaaaay too much attention to the first litter's dam/sire titles. They are both Grand Champions.

 

[messyhearts]

If I had someone waiting for a show potential kitten, then I would hang on to those that I thought had potential to see how they matured. I certainly wouldn't look at a 4/5 week old and see guaranteed show potential and expect a person to make a decision about them there and then. If someone wants to show then they deserve the best that you can offer, and if that means waiting to make sure then so be it. Those people that want to show your kittens are doing you a favour.

That said, I have never understood these breeders that have to have homes for the kittens the minute they are born, and start demanding people choose at some ridiculously young age. Show potential aside, I like to ensure I know what kind of temperament they have and match them to the right homes, not just a first come first served basis.

Yeah, that sounds like logic to me. I do half get the impression that the first breeder really didn't want me to be interested in a show quality. She keeps saying that it is only a chance & obviously I know that no breeder can promise anything at all. Even when they are 13 weeks but most of the communication I have with her is her reminding me of this. Maybe I am being paranoid but I feel a bit of a nuisance already with this request.

 

[Saikou]

I also think I am paying waaaaay too much attention to the first litter's dam/sire titles. They are both Grand Champions.

Grs do not necessarily throw Grs. In my breeds there are very few Grs that throw their type. Its the mix of pedigrees that does it, not the title of the parents.

 

[messyhearts]

Grs do not necessarily throw Grs. In my breeds there are very few Grs that throw their type. Its the mix of pedigrees that does it, not the title of the parents.

I should probably ask to see the pedigree then, I guess.

The older boy's sire nearly has solely Ch or higher in his pedigree. :eek6:

 

[Saikou]

I think you should look at the pedigree for any kitten before you committ anyway, to make sure that he/she is not too inbred.

Looking at the pedigree for show potential probably wouldn't help unless you know the lines well. Getting the right mix that produces guaranteed show quality kittens in every litter, is probably 20% ped knowledge and 80% luck.

 

[messyhearts]

I'll ask for one then. Thanks.

 

[tilsie]

I agree that two Grands don't necessarily create show stoppers. It is always down to whether the male and female click. I mated two of my girls, full sisters, to the same boy. The boy was a GR CH and ultra type, my girls are both more open type. They both had 6 kittens. The elder girl had no show quality kittens in her litter but the younger girl had 4 . That was the exact same pedigree.

Obviously the younger girl had more of her dad in her, he was ultra type, and the older had more of the plainer mum

No breeder can guarantee a show kitten so much can not develope as hoped as they get older. Mainly their bite, eye colour, coat colour or pattern and to a lessar degree their whole body conformation.

I have had stunning looking kittens that I thought would excel only to discover when their second teeth came in that the bite was off. I have also had it the other way. In my very first litter I had a stunning ultra type kitten but she had a really dirty looking coat so, not knowing any better, I sold her to a pet home. Imagine my surprise when, at 8 months, they sent me a photo of her and she had the clearest coat ever. I decided there and then that if it happened again I would run the kitten on to see how it progressed.

Good luck on Saturday.

 

[messyhearts]

Many thanks.

I have asked about the pedigree & been told it hasn't been created yet. Does anyone know if there is any database online at all for Birmans or is that really a long shot? Haha.

I forgot that the sire is actually an Imp Gr Ch not a Gr Ch. Hopefully Saturday will go well.

 

[tilsie]

Don't think there is a database as such but there is a website called pawpeds which, if the cats have been entered into it, will bring up pedigrees. It might be worth a try if you know the parents names.

This is the link PawPeds