Welcome to PetForums

Join thousands of other pet owners and pet lovers on the UK's most popular and friendly pet community and discussion forum.

Sign Up

Lola's Diary First Litter

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by LolasMum, Sep 23, 2013.


  1. LolasMum

    LolasMum PetForums Newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi everyone, I stumbled across this site whilst doing research for my pregnant dog. Lola is a 2 half years hybrid dog Malshi, cross between Shih-tzu, Maltese. We only decided to mate her as she has such a good nature and couple of family members wanted a pup but wanted to be sure of temperament. Lola was mated with a Shih-tzu 4 times between 22 July - 1 August. There was no "tie" but she did get pregnant. For this reason we can't be sure exactly of how many days she is. The vet advised against ultrasound/X-ray and checked her again last Friday. He advised he felt puppies would arrive within the week and said smaller breeds tend to go into labour early.

    Yesterday her temperature dropped from a normal of 37.5 to 36.9'. It stayed low for 24 hours. During that time she was also panting/breathing really heavy and trying to get upstairs to the bedroom and behind the sofa. She was still eating normally. Today her temperature has risen again to 37.3 and the panting has stopped.

    Any advice would be much appreciated.
     
  2. Firedog

    Firedog PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    Messages:
    8,781
    Likes Received:
    2,039
    Working things out she could be due between now and 3rd October, that is if she ovulated straight away. Sounds as if she is getting rather large and uncomfortable. No ideas about temperatures, I don't do them, I would rather wait and let nature take its course.
     
  3. LolasMum

    LolasMum PetForums Newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Vet advised us to go somewhere in the middle. If it happened the first mating she would be 63 days today, if week later 57. Vet did say because she's small he wouldn't recommend going past 65 days. Temp still low, diarrhoea earlier, very quiet and hiding out way.
     
  4. Ann Elizabeth

    Ann Elizabeth PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    9
    Just wondering how lolas is this morning?
     
    #4 Ann Elizabeth, Sep 24, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  5. Owned By A Yellow Lab

    Owned By A Yellow Lab PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    6,437
    Likes Received:
    136
    Are there any relevant health tests for these breeds?

    If yes - did you ensure they were done on both parent dogs...?

    Sorry, but I don't think the reasons you give are enough to breed, not with the rescues packed with lovely dogs with equally sweet natures :(
     
  6. LolasMum

    LolasMum PetForums Newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Firstly, Lola is doing very well this morning, she has been vet checked, who is happy with her progress.

    I joined this site for advice and support, yet, like so many other sites, there is always one person who decides to take the moral high ground and give the distinct impression that they "know best" with a frankly uncalled for and unwarranted suggestion that I should never have bred my dog. Facts - both dogs were health checked. Breeder is registered. We have been in constant touch with each other. Vet has checked at the correct intervals and is happy with progress. We bred Lola as she has an excellent temperament, and any puppies produced are going to loving family members and friends that I know. I would NEVER, repeat, NEVER, have bred her unless I knew exactly what I was doing. So please, take this the way it is intended, if you do not know me, or do not have a factual, friendly suggestion as to how I can be helped, then don't feel the need to join a thread that was started with all best intentions. Sadly, I may now leave what I hoped was a supportive crowd - I hope I don't have to.
     
  7. WeedySeaDragon

    WeedySeaDragon PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,594
    Likes Received:
    56
    I'm surprised if you know exactly what you're doing that you need to come onto a forum of strangers and ask for advice.

    Obviously it's too late in this case but it's worth pointing out for anyone else considering breeding their dog that vet checked is not the same as health tested.

    This community is incredibly supportive but also many here are incredibly driven to try and improve the current situation with dogs at the moment by promoting ethical and well thought out breeding. Unfortunately breeding from a bitch purely because she has a lovely temperament and family/friends want puppies is often neither of those things.
     
  8. Ann Elizabeth

    Ann Elizabeth PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    9
    Glad to hear lolas doing well, you will get support from people on hear but there are a lot of people who have very strong opinions that they express.
    Enjoy this time with lola and the experience of breeding a litter, I loved every minute of lily's litter though at times I was worried, it's hard work but extremely rewarding I kept one a bitch, my son and his gf another. Do give the forum the opportunity to show its supportve side and please keep us updated on lolas progress.
     
  9. Owned By A Yellow Lab

    Owned By A Yellow Lab PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    6,437
    Likes Received:
    136




    LOL - so you don't even know that 'health checks' and breed relevant health tests are entirely different things YET you are right to breed???

    Riiiight.......
     
  10. LolasMum

    LolasMum PetForums Newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    With respect to all opinions, whether informative, negative or nothing better to do than analyse comments and pick parts to criticise, it's fairly obvious that I shouldn't have thought for a nano second that this site was set up to assist a live situation, rather to opine on the pros and cons of breeding. I understand that now, but before I leave, some points to consider. Your actions will serve to drive less tenacious and caring people than I to think "what's the point in asking questions" and just crack on regardless. The whole point of a "thread" in a "forum" is meant to be to answer questions with helpful suggestions. I consulted professionals before deciding what to do, if you guys are pros, you need to work on your bedside manner. Finally, I trust and hope that your message gets across to those that matter - the folk that breed with pound signs in their eyes, and a suffering bitch. Feel free to dissect the above with the knowledge that it'll give me a laugh.
     
  11. kodakkuki

    kodakkuki PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,366
    Likes Received:
    77
    for goodness sake; why on earth post on an open forum if the first question you amy not have wanted asked is met with you deciding to leave.
    for the record, depending on what you mean by 'registered breeder'/ 'professional' that could well be a much worse thing than a byb if you mean registered with the council as a breeding facility.

    hope loa does well- with maltese being so similar to my breed i know they can have issues with whelping larger pups (and shih tzus are bigger boned than maltese) so keep that ion mind when the time comes to lookn out for signes of distress of a possible stuck pup.

    i'm sure you'll see this as 'picking appart' but it isn't... do with this post what you please, but every person in this section posts with animals best interests at heart... and no one here are 'the folk that breed with pound signs in their eyes, and a suffering bitch'.
    hope you don't leave as it is a very imformative forum... but yes, you will get questions that you may not have wanted to answer...
     
  12. WeedySeaDragon

    WeedySeaDragon PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,594
    Likes Received:
    56
    I'm afraid a discussion forum is just that. Post something and people will discuss it. I'm afraid you can't really post on a forum such as this then expect to dictate how people respond to your post.

    The subject of breeding dogs is a very emotive one, not least because there are far too many people doing it for all the wrong reasons and without being willing to put in all the effort and thought required to elevate them above being a "back yard breeder".

    I honestly hope all goes well for you and especially your bitch but it takes very little effort to find examples, even just on this forum, on this forum of times when it's gone wrong even for the people who have done everything right.
     
  13. SusieRainbow

    SusieRainbow Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    14,198
    Likes Received:
    23,142
    As far as I can see, the decision's already been made , Lola is already pregnant, it's a done deed and no way back.
    Surely what's needed now is practical advice on how to care for her and her litter ,no point going into details about tests that SHOULD have been done , it's too late for that , at least in this case.

    By all means Lola's mum, you should research these tests if you breed again to give any pups the best possible chance of a healthy life. And on reading this thread the majority of replies have been friendly and helpful, so don't let the replies you DON'T like stop you using the forum.

    Good luck with Lola and pups, please keep us up to date, I want ( need!!) pics !:)
     
  14. WeedySeaDragon

    WeedySeaDragon PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,594
    Likes Received:
    56
    It is too late in this case but as this is an open forum that can be read without even needing to be registered. It may not help the OP to talk about health testing and the forethought that should go into breeding a litter but if there's a chance that it might help someone reading the forums and considering breeding then it's worth posting.

    It's all very well seeking advice on a forum full of strangers with completely unverifiable credentials but having an experienced mentor or mentors available in real life is one of the things that should have been sorted before the OP went about breeding. If I were breeding a first litter I know I would not be comfortable without having someone experienced who I could contact at any time if I was worried or unsure. Obviously there's nothing wrong with discussing breeding and comparing notes on forums but relying on them for vital information is unwise at best.

    Have you contacted Lola's breeder OP? If they are decent they should be more than happy to be involved and offer any help you need.
     
  15. LolasMum

    LolasMum PetForums Newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    To those who have posted friendly informative replies Thank you from the bottom of my heart. To those "keyboard gangsters" who have nothing better to do than slander and put the fear of god into you I suggest you have a good think about the purpose of these forums. Are their Administrators who view these threads and pick up on what can only be described as "cyber bullying"? Yes I admire your passion regarding backyard breeders as I myself have strong opinions on this. Are any of you trained vets? Prior to mating Lola we consulted both the breeder we purchased her from and the vet. Both agreed there was nothing that would indicate we shouldn't allow her to have one litter and that in fact it could be good for her. Furthermore the vet is of the opinion that "hybrid/mixed breeds" have far less problems than full pedigree dogs. Lola is a much loved family pet and we always intended having her dressed following her litter. We have consulted the vet throughout the pregnancy and will continue to do so. I wrongly surmised I would have gained friends and a positive experience on a pet friendly forum. The minority have made this a negative experience when my main concern at this time is for our beloved pet. Incidentally to the "haters" everyone has to start out somewhere as did you!! To those friendlier responses again thank you very much. I shall be speaking to admin about what is nothing more than a which hunt to a new member. With that I bid you goodbye to go care for Lola who indeed is my main focus at this time.
     
  16. Owned By A Yellow Lab

    Owned By A Yellow Lab PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    6,437
    Likes Received:
    136


    No decent breeder nor vet would claim it is 'good' for a bitch to have a litter! And you are also saying your vet supports the notion of 'hybrid vigour'?

    FIND A BETTER VET.

    And if you don't want candid opinions then don't blinking well POST on an OPEN forum.

    If you don't know the difference between 'health tests' and 'health checks' then you have no business going into breeding - and if you want to label that 'slander' then knock yourself out!

    Yes I have been blunt but I am so fed up of people insisting on breeding their dogs without doing even enough research to know what 'breed relevant health tests' MEANS :mad2:

    As for branding me a 'hater' - yep, I do passionately and utterly hate and loathe people who care so little for their dogs that they are prepared to risk their health by letting them get pregnant without having first done TONS of research.

    Not to mention that rescues are bursting at the seams with unwanted dogs.

    You will find none of this is 'slander' - it is me expressing my opinion. Which is allowed in a democracy! Get over it.
     
    #16 Owned By A Yellow Lab, Sep 24, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  17. WeedySeaDragon

    WeedySeaDragon PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,594
    Likes Received:
    56
    Were health tests performed? I don't believe there are some recommended one for both maltese and shih tzus. It's also a complete myth, though some vets seem very keen to keep perpetuating it, that having a litter is of any benefit whatsoever to a bitch either physically or mentally.

    There's a great misconception that breeding two different breeds is somehow a guarantee of healthy puppies and thus health testing and choosing the parents with care is unnecessary. I would not be happy to rely on chance to avoid health issues if there were tests available, nor would I support a breeder who used crossbreeding as an excuse not to bother testing.

    I'm sorry if you feel bullied OP but that is certainly not my intention, nor that of most other posters I'm sure. The truth is you need a thick skin if you are going to breed dogs, it's one of those subjects that is highly emotive for many dog lovers and a lot of us will grab any opportunity we can to get the information out there which may cause someone to think twice about breeding their dogs for the wrong reasons.
     
  18. BessieDog

    BessieDog PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    7,176
    Likes Received:
    395
    I know why people are annoyed. But what's the OP going to do about it now?

    Her dogs going to have pups very shortly - and as dog lovers shouldn't we be giving advice to help the bitch and pups survive?

    There's one hell of a lot of ignorance around, not only about health tests but about the whelping process too. Advising on the latter is currently the case in point.
     
  19. SusieRainbow

    SusieRainbow Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    14,198
    Likes Received:
    23,142
    My point exactly ! She's had some good advice, I hope she sees it as such.
     
  20. WeedySeaDragon

    WeedySeaDragon PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,594
    Likes Received:
    56
    Exactly.

    Just because the OP can't benefit from some advice with this litter it may help them in future, as well as people reading the forum who aren't registered.

    I hope the OP sticks around as they will get great advice here but I see it as a good thing that there are people always willing to promote ethical breeding.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice