Welcome to PetForums

Join thousands of other pet owners and pet lovers on the UK's most popular and friendly pet community and discussion forum.

Sign Up

Lilac parents both carrying colourpoint

Discussion in 'Cat Breeding' started by Holly BtoB, Nov 27, 2019.


  1. spotty cats

    spotty cats PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    7,619
    Likes Received:
    4,386
    Sexes are never equal though, many humans have all boys or all girls.

    I've had lots more boys than girl kittens. 6 boys in one litter was the highest.
     
  2. Rufus15

    Rufus15 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2015
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    6,700
    It's also the male that determines the sex of the kittens, not the female. As always, it's the man's fault :D
     
  3. Tetley&Kenco

    Tetley&Kenco PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    433
    Likes Received:
    1,610
    Sorry to jump in... but I’m finding this interesting and wanted to ask a question about the colours of mine!

    @OrientalSlave any idea on how my two and their siblings ended up the colours they are???

    Dad is red/white bicolour
    Mum is blue torti
    Kittens are: black male (Kenco), chocolate/white bicolour male (Tetley), and two cream females

    What were mum and dad carrying to make that mixed litter??
     
  4. Rufus15

    Rufus15 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2015
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    6,700
    Dad is dominant (red in this case but also black)so he has given that gene to make the black but he also carries dilute (cream or blue).

    Mum is tortie so she's given the red (or in this case cream because she's dilute) to make the creams. Both parents need to be or carry dilute to produce dilute, which is how we know what dad is carrying.

    Both parents also need to carry the chocolate gene, which is recessive to black but a separate gene to dilute.
     
    Tetley&Kenco likes this.
  5. Tetley&Kenco

    Tetley&Kenco PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    433
    Likes Received:
    1,610
    Thanks for that!

    I feel like black and chocolate/white were not necessarily likely colours, or at least what the breeder was aiming for! I know she kept a cream girl and she let me have the two boys for quite cheap... although I know black cats do tend to get sold cheaper in general. But she had a black imperial grand champion she was very proud of (he was stunning!)
     
  6. Holly BtoB

    Holly BtoB PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    13
    Thankyou for this. I personally love them! As i said before I love all cats regardless Thankyou so much for telling me this though.
     
  7. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    12,896
    Likes Received:
    8,221
    In Orientals its rare to find one without siamese in the pedigree & eye colour is fine, but Siamese have much better eye colour then cp bsh
     
  8. Rufus15

    Rufus15 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2015
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    6,700
    I don't think black cats are sold cheaper, certainly not Maine Coons. They are slightly harder to sell but shouldn't be a different price than any other colour.

    Black was definitely a likely colour, as one cat, in this case the dad, was a dominant so black was more likely than cream or blue. I'd imagine chocolate was a bit of a surprise though, as it can be difficult to get
     
  9. Tetley&Kenco

    Tetley&Kenco PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    433
    Likes Received:
    1,610
    In my black cat appreciation thread sadly the experience of most people were black cats taking longer to home and having lower prices, although everyone was referring to moggies and rescue, so hopefully in the pedigree world they come with less stigma and difficulty to sell?

    Looking at Tetley and Kenco’s pedigree there is a fair amount of chocolate in their ancestry so maybe she was hoping for a chocolate? Unfortunately Tetley has very unsymmetrical markings so not the ideal! There is actually no black in their pedigree since great great great grandparents!
     
  10. spotty cats

    spotty cats PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    7,619
    Likes Received:
    4,386
    Maybe the green of Ori's makes a difference compared to orange eye Brits?

    I've only seen a handful of CP Brits over the years, they had worked on coat texture over eye colour - which was always very pale and grey.
     
  11. Tetley&Kenco

    Tetley&Kenco PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    433
    Likes Received:
    1,610
    I just found a photo of their sister and she isn’t cream.... she is “fawn tortie spotter”!

    What is the difference between fawn and cream? In her recent photo she looks darker than when I met her as a kitten which is when I assumed she was cream!
     
  12. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    12,896
    Likes Received:
    8,221
    Maybe, maybe not. I heard the cats used to bring colourpoint to BSH had poor eye colour and it's persisted, but that might be a myth.
     
    spotty cats likes this.
  13. Tetley&Kenco

    Tetley&Kenco PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    433
    Likes Received:
    1,610
  14. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    12,896
    Likes Received:
    8,221
    It's not on the list of tests suggested by Langford, and there is no need to test a kitten whose parents both tested negative, or are negative by inheritance. Note they say all their cats are negative...

    Also if it's the problem they imply it is, all BSH with colourpoint anywhere in their pedigrees - even way, way back - should be tested to establish their status. This page feels to me like a breeder trying to say they are extra-wonderful & careful.
     
    Tetley&Kenco likes this.
  15. LeArthur

    LeArthur PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,947
    Likes Received:
    7,173
  16. Tetley&Kenco

    Tetley&Kenco PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Messages:
    433
    Likes Received:
    1,610
    Ooooo so cute :Cat I’ve always thought my Tetley was a rare colour pattern (chocolate white bicolour) as I don’t see many examples on breeders’ pages, Instagram or by googling, but I think CP must be rarer!
     
    LeArthur likes this.
  17. spotty cats

    spotty cats PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    7,619
    Likes Received:
    4,386
    PRA is an inexpensive test :) a number of breeds test for it.
     
    Tetley&Kenco likes this.
  18. Rufus15

    Rufus15 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2015
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    6,700
    I think black pedigrees are probably more popular than black moggies. I know that blacks are usually last to be reserved, as a general rule of thumb, but still sell and for the same price as their siblings. Black are needed to keep blue coats sound, too much blue to blue results in the colour not reaching to the roots, so a breeder may have a blue breeding programme, but will have at least one black to help the coat on, if that makes sense.


    Fawn is black-based, cream is red-based so two different genes entirely. Cream requires the red gene and two dilute genes only, fawn requires two copies of the fawn gene, which is recessive of cinnamon, which is turn is recessive to black. I'm not entirely clear on inheritance, I did do it on PawPeds but as these colours aren't in my breed I'm not entirely familiar with them. @spotty cats is a more reliable source to ask :) PS, I think you mean spotted, not spotter ;)
     
    Tetley&Kenco likes this.
  19. LeArthur

    LeArthur PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,947
    Likes Received:
    7,173
    Depends on the genetics involved I guess. Arthur was one of 5 and he had a cream colour point sibling.
     
    Tetley&Kenco likes this.
  20. spotty cats

    spotty cats PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    7,619
    Likes Received:
    4,386
    Fawn is dilute of cinnamon. Both need to be, or carry, cinnamon & dilute for fawn.

    The shades vary between breeds, in Oci's fawn is pink toned.
    I call my lavenders pink cats but fawn is pinker.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice