Welcome to PetForums

Join thousands of other pet owners and pet lovers on the UK's most popular and friendly pet community and discussion forum.

Sign Up

Lilac parents both carrying colourpoint

Discussion in 'Cat Breeding' started by Holly BtoB, Nov 27, 2019.


  1. Holly BtoB

    Holly BtoB PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    13
    Am I right in believing kittens could be colourpoint ?
    TIA
     
  2. spotty cats

    spotty cats PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    7,066
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    Yes that is correct
     
  3. Holly BtoB

    Holly BtoB PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    13
    Thankyou x
     
  4. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    11,787
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    Yes, on average 1 in 4 will be colour-point, 2 in 4 will be carriers and the final 1 in 4 will not. This is just on average, and carriers cannot be differentiated visually. If you are wanting to keep a carrier you will have to DNA test once they are a few weeks old.

    And averages are just that! I've had a litter of 5 boys & 1 girl, and another of 5 boys. Someone, somewhere must have had the counterbalancing girl litters...
     
  5. Holly BtoB

    Holly BtoB PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    13
    Oh goodness me!!

    my other lilac girl has had 2
    Litters : one litter of 2 girls and 1 boy and the second litter was 3 girls and 2 boys how bizarre... I am hoping for a colour point kitten I just love them although not many people do unfortunately:(
     
  6. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    11,787
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    Ah you have some of the girl litters! And if you want a kitten of a particular sex, that multiples up - 1/4 * 1/2 = 1/8. :D
     
  7. Holly BtoB

    Holly BtoB PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    13
    Sorry I’m corrected the second litter was 2 girls and 3 boys And the first litter was 2 girls and 1 boy !! X
     
  8. Holly BtoB

    Holly BtoB PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    13

    In layman’s terms.... my girl has more girls than boys?
     
  9. gskinner123

    gskinner123 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,473
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    It does even out over a number of litters to the 'pure' mathematical average. But most of us wouldn't be breeding enough litters from one girl to see it.

    My black girl, carrying chocolate and dilute mated to a lilac stud had five blue kittens this year.
     
    OrientalSlave likes this.
  10. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    11,787
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    :D But all chocolate carriers.
     
    gskinner123 and Holly BtoB like this.
  11. Holly BtoB

    Holly BtoB PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    13

    yes you’d have to have a lot of litters!! Oh wow how fabulous with your girl . I’m intrigued to see if I get some colour points. Both mum and dad are lilac but their one of their parents each were colourpoint.
     
  12. gskinner123

    gskinner123 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,473
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    There's another law - Sod's. Which means all will carry point or chocolate or whatever unless you need them not to and vice versa.

    I have so rarely had exactly what I wanted/needed without some form of compromise. It's frustrating :)

    By the way, I'm speaking in general, not in relation to the op's post
     
    lymorelynn and OrientalSlave like this.
  13. Holly BtoB

    Holly BtoB PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    13



    That’s very true! Ok , I’m quite new to colours etc and I’m only just starting out (we all have to somewhere , right!?) there could be a possibility that my girl could have chocolate points?
     
  14. Holly BtoB

    Holly BtoB PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    13
    Also whilst I’m here, my girl is a British shorthair. I’ve seen a few guys on here discuss colourpoints and that they’re not very “desirable” im shocked I love them. Although I love every cat and every colour / pattern going!
     
  15. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    11,787
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    No. Lilac is dilute chocolate, dilute is recessive, so two dilutes can't have a dominant - shorthand a cat that's not dilute. OTOH two chocolates can have a lilac-point as long as both carry dilute.

    You need to understand Mendelian Inheritance as the basis for understanding the genetics of cat coat colours & patterns:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendelian_inheritance

    The above link mentions Punnett Squares which are a very useful way of looking at that is going on:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnett_square

    Also as I mentioned above, if there is a 1 in 4 chance of a kitten inheriting one trait, and a 1 in 4 of another, then multiple 1/4 x 1/4 and you get 1/16 - 1 in 16. And if you are interested in a particular sex (which is 1 in 2), 1/16 x 1/2 = 1/32.

    This is a good link though possibly OTT for you at present until you've got your head around Mendel & Punnett squares.
    http://messybeast.com/cat-genetics-basics.htm
     
    Maurey likes this.
  16. Holly BtoB

    Holly BtoB PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    13
    Wow this is so interesting. You need a medal to remember it all! I’ll get there slowly but surely!!! Wow minds blown! Thankyou
     
  17. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    11,787
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    Take it step by step. The Mendelian stuff, then Punnett squares, then the genes involved in your breeding. There are probably plenty of other genes you don't need to worry about.
     
  18. Holly BtoB

    Holly BtoB PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    13
    Fab! Thankyou so much! Do you have any answers as to why the colourpoint seem to be not as “desirable”??
     
  19. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    11,787
    Likes Received:
    6,870
    None whatsoever
     
    Holly BtoB likes this.
  20. gskinner123

    gskinner123 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,473
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    Colourpointed in themselves are not seen as undesirable at all; their numbers aren't great, show wise, but they aren't considered a minority colour (or rather pattern)

    What is seen as undesirable by many is having colourpointed cats in the pedigree of selfs as their presence is thought by many to adversely affect the eye colour of orange eyed cats.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice