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Lift endorsements/puppy in return

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by alrhios, May 7, 2010.


  1. alrhios

    alrhios PetForums Junior

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    Hello,
    can someone tell me if it is normal practice for a breeder to agree to lift puppy endorsements in return for pick of the litter? Just seems a bit excessive...
    Thanks
     
  2. katiefranke

    katiefranke PetForums VIP

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    my breeder would lift endorsements once i showed i knew what i was doing, had done the health tests and found a suitable stud dog i would imagine - she would not ask for a pup for doing this.

    however, I would be happy agreeing to a pup from the litter, but not pick of the litter...as surely you would want that pup yourself (assuming your plan is to keep one)?
     
  3. Tanya1989

    Tanya1989 PetForums VIP

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    I endorse the full litter. I will only lift the endorsements when the puppy is old enough to breed from 2 1/2yrs with good health test results, I do my own temperament tests on the puppy when old enough to breed, and the dog must have proved themself in the ring or working ability.
     
  4. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    NO, NO, NO - it is BANG out of order - sadly, while the KC frown on such practices, they won't get involved unless you can prove you were not made aware of the endorsements.

    I give all my puppy owners a signed copy of a contract (and I keep a copy signed by them) that I will lift the endorsements free of charge subject to certain health tests and their results, and in the case of dogs, a certain level of achievement in ring, field or related working field.

    The breeder of my friends dog tried to charge her for lifting the restrictions, thankfully, she contacted the stud dog owner who was more than willing to help.

    But let this be a clear warning to anyone buying a pup to ensure that they are clear what is required to lift the restrictions, and if that involves any type of recompense to the breeder (i.e. puppy or money) walk away FAST.

    Lifting restrictions take the price of a stamp or fax call from the breeder to the KC :(
     
  5. Tanya1989

    Tanya1989 PetForums VIP

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    Sorry OP. I completely misread the original post. No, it is not acceptable for them to charge you to lift the endorsements. It costs nothing apart from postage of the letter the breeder sends them.

    When you got the puppy (if you have) what did it say in the contract of sale? Did it mention the endorsements and the conditions of lifting them. The KC will often lift them (much to the anger of responsible breeders) if the puppy owners weren't made aware of them at the time of sale.

    If you have bought the puppy and were aware of the conditions of the endorsements there is nothing you can do unless you agree to their conditions and have the endorsements lifted.

    Personally I'd rather not breed the dog and leave the endorsements in place than send a new puppy to the breeder. They are obviously only in it for the money :(
     
  6. jardine

    jardine PetForums Member

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    I think that is terrible, the idea of indorsments is to make sure the dogs are healthy and have had health checks not for a breeder to be greedy.
     
  7. kaisa624

    kaisa624 PetForums VIP

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    Holly wasn't endorsed at all, however the other pups were, and were only to be lifted if they had been proven in show, or agility. We will be endorsing our pup's, if and when we have them.
     
  8. dexter

    dexter PetForums VIP

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    nope never heard of it sorry x
     
  9. luvmydogs

    luvmydogs PetForums VIP

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    Its outrageous!!!! :eek:
     
  10. mitch4

    mitch4 PetForums VIP

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    is she intending on buying the pup this wouldnt be so bad as its her breeding in the first instance and only having pick of litter if you were not keeping one back yourself but i dont like the sort of blackmailing tactics there seemes to be attached to lifting the endorsement :confused:
     
  11. alrhios

    alrhios PetForums Junior

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    What he said was puppies are all endorsed. If I don't have a litter, there's nothing else to give. If I do have a litter he would want me to give him a puppy from the litter in effect I suppose as payment for him lifting the restriction. I just thought it seemed a bit greedy and just money making so thought I would check if this is the norm and I was out of touch.

    I fully understand why breeders endorse pups, I endorsed pups when I bred quite a few years back, but didn't have a problem with lifting them... free of charge, if I was happy with the dog and the owner) Ive been out of this for a while, so thought id ask. I have heard of pup in lieu of stud fee, but not this.

    Thanks everyone for your replies and help x
     
  12. foxy81

    foxy81 PetForums Member

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    Years ago we bought a pup that was endorsed, the conditions of lifting the endorsement was that if he passed all health tests/temp that the breeder could use him for stud once, we were hapy with this as we were not charged the full price for the pup,the breeder wanted to keep the said pup however couldnt at the time, so in a way let us have him on breeding terms, but as i say we never paid the full price for our boy so suited us at the time, dont think its fair for a breeder to demand a pup off your litter just to lift endorsments.
     
  13. rocco33

    rocco33 PetForums VIP

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    I would think legally he can do whatever is in the contract he has/will have with you - so if you have already agreed to this then yes, he can do it. But morally he is well out of order so I would avoid this breeder with a barge pole. Have you already got the puppy or are you just at the looking for a pup stage - if the latter I would walk away.
     
  14. muse08

    muse08 PetForums Member

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    There is a world of difference between a verbal agreement regarding endorsements and having a signed written contract of sale/agreement.
    If you have signed a contract of sale which explains the endorsements and conditions of removal then there isn’t much you can do.
    But if you did not sign a written contract then technically you are within your rights to write to the kennel club and ask them to remove them because there is no proof that you were made aware of them and their conditions of removal at the time of sale.
    IMO to expect a pup in return for removing endorsements is a bit greedy, as has already been said it only takes a letter and a price of a stamp.
     
  15. mitch4

    mitch4 PetForums VIP

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    the fact he wants you to just give him a puppy from the litter is rough, i would expect you paid full price for your pup with no breeding contract, so if he sees fit to lift the endorsements it should be done on a handshake not for the price of a puppy, unless obviously it is in a written contract.

    what a scam this could be endorse all your pups then lift it for the price of a puppy, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm may be im being synical here :mad:
     
  16. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    Just out of curiosity, is the breeder an Accredited Breeder? if they are, then part of the obligation is to clearly explain any endorsements in writing.

    You say you used to breed, so clearly you know what 'endorsements' mean, but in law, the onus is on the breeder to make puppy buyers aware of these endorsements and the conditions for lifting them.

    If this was not made clear at the time of buying the pup, then you may well have a case, as the breeder is deemed to have 'the knowledge'.

    You could try the kennel club route but I know they will say if you were made aware of the endorsements at the time of buying the pup, there is nothing they can or will do.

    Conversely, if terms weren't made clear at the time of buying, then you may have a legal case against the breeder.
     
  17. alrhios

    alrhios PetForums Junior

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    No, I haven't bought the puppy. I was just enquiring if this is something which has 'come on the scene' recently and what I should expect. But after enquiring about other puppies, clearly it isnt. And yes, they are an accredited breeder and said all this would be written in the terms...not for me though.

    Thanks.
     
  18. mitch4

    mitch4 PetForums VIP

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    Sounds like youv made the right choice

    keep us posted on the future puppy :)
     
  19. Freyja

    Freyja PetForums VIP

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    Something simialar happened with a friend of mine. I don't know all the details but she has litter sisters both had endorsements on their pedigrees. The breeders had moved to USA and one partner had died. She alwasy been told that if the bitches were good enough the breeding endorsements would be lifted. One bitch has won a CC

    The surviving partner decided he wanted the line to die along with the other partner but later changed his mind. He agreeded to lift the endorsments but the one bitch had to be co registered in his name. He then was to have a bitch puppy out of the litter shipped to USA which was registered with the KC with his affix.The bitches ownership was then put back into my friends sole ownership and the endorsements lifted of the other bitch and the rest of the litter have her affix. My friend was happy with this arrangement as it ment she could breed the litter she always wanted. The person in USA had suggested she enter the bitches at a show under a certain judge . Unbeknown to her the judge had been asked to assess the bitches to see if they were good enough to breed of.
     
  20. raindog

    raindog PetForums Senior

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    It's difficult to give a clear answer unless all the circumstances are clear. For example, on our puppy sales contracts, we make it very clear under what conditions the endorsement will be lifted - ie clear eye tests, good hip score and evidence of the dog's quality in the showring and the working arena.

    Occasionally, where the pup is a gift to a friend, or sold at a much reduced price, we will include a clause requiring that if the pup is bred from, we will take the pick from the first litter. The pup must still fulfill all the other conditions (above) before the endorsement is lifted.

    All this is made very clear at the time of purchase - or earlier when the prospective purchaser enquires about a pup.

    Mick
     
    #20 raindog, May 9, 2010
    Last edited: May 9, 2010
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