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Knowing if a bitch has had a litter

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by corrine3, Jun 2, 2010.


  1. corrine3

    corrine3 PetForums VIP

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    We got Milly nearly 3 weeks ago and she is a four year old springer spaniel. We dont know if she's had any litters but is there anyway of finding out? There was a middle man as such when we bought her so not spoken directly to her previous owner. She is a fully trained gun dog and OH has been to he'd be mad not to have a litter with her while i'm not so sure. She's very small for the breed and I worry she wouldnt cope. Also no health tests done that we know of.

    So really just wondering if there are any tell tale signs that she's had pups before?
     
  2. momentofmadness

    momentofmadness PetForums VIP

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    My dog has big nips.. not huge but are a bit mis shapen..
     
  3. corrine3

    corrine3 PetForums VIP

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    yeh i think hers are on the large side. Maybe I could post a pic.
     
  4. leoti

    leoti PetForums VIP

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    Not sure if ud be able to tell , my bitch had puppies 7 months ago and to look at her now u wouldnt know she had then unless i told u as she has gone back to the way she was before the puppies
     
  5. flufffluff39

    flufffluff39 PetForums VIP

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    My pug was sold because she was disabled and obviuosly they had tried with her but failed so decided they did'nt want her. I did'nt ask the woman but you can see. Her vulva is very stretched and hanging her nipples were big. The vet agreed with me on her exam too!!
     
  6. momentofmadness

    momentofmadness PetForums VIP

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    You can see Maizies cause she has such short hair...
     
  7. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    So much depends on the bitch - my eldest girl has had two litters and it's obvious to anyone she has had babies.

    Her daughter OTOH was back to her pre-pregnancy size at 12 weeks, and you would never in a million years guess she had had babies.

    It sounds like you don't know a lot about her background to consider having a litter - is she KC registered? have you had the papers to transfer her to your ownership? if yes, then I am assuming the KC may be able to give you the information.

    When any bitch is bred from, the Breed Record Supplement (BRS) records the bitches age, the number of litters she has had and how many pups, plus the date of the last litter - personally, I would always like to see a MINIMUM of 12 months between litters, and ideally longer.

    If she hasn't had a litter at 4 years old, then really, you are moving quickly towards territory where she is too old to have her first litter.
     
  8. Tanya1989

    Tanya1989 PetForums VIP

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    What were the reasons she was sold to you. I'd imagine if she is from a working back ground she has been deemed unsuitable to be bred from otherwise she would have been kept as a broodbitch. Its almost impossible to tell if some have had a litter or just a bad phantom
     
  9. corrine3

    corrine3 PetForums VIP

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    We have her papers and have applied for ownership. We got her from someone who has a lot of dogs and trains them for field trials and she just wasnt quite up to scratch. We got her for OH to use as a working dog which she is really good at. I'm not wanting a litter from her was more curiosity. We have a 10month male cocker who is being castrated this month, some stupid people have been saying oh sprocker pups! I said no way!
     
  10. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    If you have the previous owner / breeders details, then is there any reason why you can't contact them? it should be relatively easy to get their details if they are an established kennel.

    At least then you would have first hand information and a bit more knowledge on her background etc - she may also have breeding endorsements on her, although I gather they don't tend to be used as widely in working communities.
     
  11. rocco33

    rocco33 PetForums VIP

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    As Swarthy says, if she's kc registered there any registered litters will be recorded in the BRS.

    Not necessarily. Many gundog trainers/breeders bring on several youngsters and don't keep them all and will sell on to those who want a full or part trained gundog. They may not be quite up to field trial level (which realistically, is only for the best), but make perfectly good working dogs, or, they may simply be training them on to be sold to those who want a working dog.
     
  12. Tanya1989

    Tanya1989 PetForums VIP

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    This is what I mean, she wasn't good enough to be bred from. (Sorry lol, thats what I class as unsuitable, either failed health tests poor temperament, barren or simply not good enough type)
     
  13. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    I can't speak in this instance as I don't know the circumstances, and the fact it came through a 'middle man' sounds a bit weird - but there are instances when a breeder will put a bitch out to a working / show or even pet home, but on breeding terms.

    Breeders can't keep every dog, I've kept my bitch I can't breed from, a lot would have got rid - but I've considered putting one of my bitches out on breeding terms and likewise, pups I've not kept, I would be interested (subject to their health results being acceptable) in seeing the litters with a view to buying a pup back if potentially good enough and circumstances allow.

    Sadly, we cannot keep all dogs, and if you look at a show catalogue, it happens a lot - because a kennel might have kept what they deem to be the best doesn't mean that something else isn't good enough, if that were the case, then new breeders / kennels wouldn't get a look in, and never get their hands on foundation bitches for working or show kennels.

    =================

    As above, I am talking in generic terms here, because I know nothing about this dog, it's breeding or it's breeders - if the OP MIGHT be interested in breeding her responsibly, then she should talk to the original kennel / breeders if they want further information.
     
    DKDREAM likes this.
  14. Tanya1989

    Tanya1989 PetForums VIP

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    I definitely agree with this. It would be incredibly irresponsible to breed from her having not known her full history, it would ALMOST be like breeding from a rescue dog. It doesn't matter that you have papers with the dog. (not getting on at you OP.... I am speaking generically, I know you are responsible)

    You need to get in touch with breeder asap. If she hasn't had a litter before she will be too old for a first time litter in 6 months. Although, TBH I know it might not be what you want to hear but it will be virtually impossible to plan for a litter (responsibly) in the short space of 6 months, when you consider all the studs you have to choose from in the breed, the waiting list (it takes a while for you to get her name out there) the health testing etc etc. I think you will be incredibly pushed for time to get a litter out of her unless she's been bred already. If she has had a litter before, you basically have 18month- 2 years of planning (much better time frame) providing she is kept in hard condition.
     
  15. corrine3

    corrine3 PetForums VIP

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    I would rather hear that it is unsuitable to breed her as i want to put OH off the idea. I've said to him on many occasions to find out if she has had pups and to find out when her season is. The sale of this dog had very little to do with me, its OH that paid for her and it is him she will be working for. Had it been up to me I would have wanted to meet the owner but the 'transaction' as such took place between my OH and the guys friend who my OH knew, I understand how dodgy that must sound but honestly its just how things happened. Not really needing to justify myself on here though. Just wanted to know about my original question. But as you say I will once again suggest he gets in touch with her previous owner, thanks for your help.
     
  16. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    :D:D I have to say it makes a nice change to see someone looking for reasons not to breed :thumbup:

    Your best hope is she hasn't had pups, and then you can point out to your OH, that she doesn't have a big time window left to have a first litter - so it would be a fair while before he would be able to use her for the purpose he originally bought her. ;)
     
  17. corrine3

    corrine3 PetForums VIP

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    Brilliant. He has wanted to use Glen as a stud and i said no i'd rather have a bitch if we were to have a litter so i get a say in who the pups go to. So Glen is now booked in for the snip at the end of the month. Now i'm trying to work on reasons not to use Milly. We are only in our 20's if he must breed we have our whole lives ahead of us to do it properly. I think she's on the small side, then there's health tests. I keep saying with her being wee she'd prob need a c-section and that costs more money than its worth to breed. Also there are enough spaniels around here!

    His mum bred yorkies when he was wee and i think thats where the notion comes from. First thing she said when we got her was 'i think you should have puppies' :mad: i said bugger off!
     
  18. Lucy1012

    Lucy1012 PetForums Senior

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    Sorry haven't read all the posts, but once you have the dog redistered in your name, you will be able to call the kennel club and ask. They were able to give me the date and number of puppies of Maisie's first litter.
     
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