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kitty with persistent diarrhoea

Discussion in 'Cat Health and Nutrition' started by hamelli, Nov 7, 2019.


  1. hamelli

    hamelli PetForums Junior

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    Hi all!
    I made a post about 5/6 months ago explaining how my cat has had diarrhoea pretty much since she moved in with us in April. She also had skin issues and vomiting, both of which seem to have cleared up now which is great! However the diarrhoea still persists. She is a happy cat and does not seem sick at all any more. She is a little bit overweight, but she is an indoor cat. We try to exercise her a lot. Part of me thinks she’s just one of those cats with a sensitive tummy, but surely soft stools shouldn’t happen every time.

    I am not sure what cleared up the vomiting, or caused it. She was de-wormed and de-flead and we tried grain-free food. Her skin used to get scabby and she would over-groom. This stopped a couple of months ago, she still grooms a lot but nowhere near as much as she used to.

    She has dry food in the mornings and wet food in the evenings. She no longer eats treats too, under the vets advice. She has hypoallergenic, grain free dry food in the morning (Sainsbury’s Hypoallergenic Chicken and Rice) and in the evening she currently eats Kattovit Gastro wet food with Turkey, which is meant to help with sensitive tummies but hasn’t. Beforehand she was on Sainsbury’s Grain-free wet food and the same things were happening.
    I think the Sains hypoallergenic dry food really helps with her skin, either that or the no treats have helped. I am not sure which! Or maybe the flea stuff? I don’t want to stop with this food because of the hypoallergenic factor.

    Her stools are usually very soft, quite large, sometimes have a nice shape, often very foul-smelling and sometimes she leaves spots of blood on the floor after going for a poop. She also has a lot of flatulence.


    She has had stool tests for diseases and she doesn’t have any. She doesn’t have worms. We haven’t tested her for IBD yet due to our finances. We tried a raw diet, she won’t touch non-processed meat. We have been to the vet a lot and have tried different pro/prebiotics- they did not help.

    I am not sure if she IS allergic to grains, we just use the food just in case she is. However, my worry is, with all the grain free food, is she not getting enough fibre? Is fibre what she needs to make her stools harder? Should I just try a basic wet food which is not grain free? How can she be allergic to grains yet need fibre !? I can’t wrap my head around it.
    My worry is that her skin will get bad again, even though I’m unsure of the cause. Sigh. As i say, she seems happy and normal, so I am just trying to do things myself at the minute to see what works instead of paying ungodly vet fees. Any help would be great. Thank you...


    PS. I have some Macs mono sensitive food, about 20 cans that I would like to sell, since we tried this food months ago and Pammy reacted badly to it. Let me know if you are interested.
     
  2. hamelli

    hamelli PetForums Junior

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    May I just add... I use the term “diarrhoea” loosely (lol). I just mean she has very soft stools.
     
  3. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    Hello @hamelli - thank you for the update. :) I am pleased to hear Pammy's skin is better. Perhaps it was flea allergy dermatitis, not uncommon in cats. Treating her preventatively with a good spot-on treatment such as Advantage will keep her free of fleas.

    I'm pleased too that her vomiting has stopped, it may have been diet related.

    You are right, she shouldn't have loose (or soft) stools every day, that is not normal. The cat's anal glands, just inside the anus, need emptying frequently, (e.g. every day) a process that happens during defecation. But they will only empty if there is the right amount of pressure in the rectum from a firm stool. If the anal glands don't empty frequently they can become blocked and infected.

    Two of my cats have digestive issues (IBD) and one has well-controlled dermatitis. I feed them no dry food, only a grain free wet food diet with some raw occasionally. Their diets are the result of my carrying out 'elimination diets' for each one for several months. The results were that the 2 with IBD are allergic to beef, fish and rabbit, and the one with controlled dermatitis is allergic to beef, fish and chicken. So they have none of these meats in their diets. And they are all doing well.

    Have you considered carrying out an elimination diet for Pammy? It is the only scientific way to identify any food allergies. I strongly recommend it. Trying out different foods on an ad hoc basis doesn't bring the same clear results. (I tried that first ;))

    You may like to read the pinned thread linked below on the topic of an elimination diet, how to go about it, where to buy the food for the novel protein.. The diet does not include any dry as it would be impossible to test for allergies with dry food, there are too many different ingredients in it.

    https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/elimination-diets.509821/

    You asked about fibre in cat food. In fact a cat needs less fibre in their diet to have firmer stools, not more fibre. A cat's 'natural' diet (e.g. small rodents, birds, some insects) does contain some fibre, e.g. the fur of the prey + some of the smaller feathers of the birds) but nothing like as much fibre as is commonly put into dry cat food. So if you add more fibre to Pammy's diet it is likely to make her bowel situation much worse.

    To provide fibre in grain-free cat foods manufacturers add vegetables such as potato, sweet potato or squash. Or pulses in small quantities, e.g. chick peas, pea fibre etc. For most cats these serve the purpose of providing enough fibre. Cat foods contain offal including heart, and heart is loosening to the bowel. (Too loosening, in the case of some makes)

    A short term treatment for firming her stools would be to feed her home-cooked chicken drumsticks or poached white fish (e.g. pollock) for a few days. Nothing else except water. No dry food, no treats, no cat milk (cat milk incidentally is a common cause of soft stools as cats lack the enzyme lactase to process the lactose). What would be likely to happen is that she would not defecate for a few days and would then pass a firm stool. If she still produced a loose/soft stool on a plain chicken or white fish diet then it might indicate that she is intolerant of chicken or fish. (as causes such as e.g. parasites or bowel infections have been ruled out with lab tests of her stools)

    The above diet is only intended as a temporary measure to address diarrhoea or loose stools. To feed her a plain home cooked meat diet permanently would mean adding a specific vitamin and mineral completer to it. The best one to add to cooked food is Felini Complete (from Zooplus).

    Once Pammy passed a firm stool on the temporary chicken or fish diet, you would gradually start moving her back to a cat food diet. No dry food, wet food only at this stage. Wet foods I can suggest that are suitable for sensitive tummies are Animonda Vom Feinsten for neutered cats (buy from Zooplus), and the Mild meals from Miamor. Mine are also Ok with Little Big Paw now and then (buy from UK pet stores such as Pets at Home) and also Canagan pouches (also from UK pet stores). If you can keep Pammy off the dry food, it will be better for her kidneys, as well as her bowel.

    In the longer term, an elimination diet is the answer. It really is the best way to identify food allergies.

    Incidentally when a cat has a flea allergy, it sometimes triggers food allergies. This was the case with my adopted rescued stray (whose dermatitis is now well controlled).
     
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  4. hamelli

    hamelli PetForums Junior

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    @chillminx thanks so much for your response! So highly digestible cat foods - is this not what is causing her to have soft stools?

    I will definitely consider an elimination diet. She won’t touch cooked or raw plain fish or chicken, even if it’s cooked in goose fat!
    At the moment her dry and wet food only consists of chicken and turkey.
    Can I get any elimination diet products at Pets at Home?

    I feel like no matter what I have given her, she always has soft stools. I remember when I used Macs sensitive her tummy didn’t respond well to lamb at all.
     
  5. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    No, I'm afraid Pets at Home don't sell novel protein foods. Novel proteins for UK cats would be e.g. kangaroo, goat, horse, reindeer and venison. You would choose one of those and feed it to her for 8 weeks minimum. Nothing else except water. This will rest the bowel and reduce the immune response.

    After that you would challenge her immune system with the common meat proteins, one meat at a time, every 3 weeks, and keep a daily log of symptoms. These meats must be guaranteed single proteins. I can't recall that [email protected] sells any single protein wet foods. If one reads the labels they usually contain some other meat, e.g. chicken, as a cheap way of bulking up the protein content. I always buy the single protein foods from Zooplus, Zoo-bio UK, or Fuettern-mit-spass in Germany.

    As she likes turkey you could start with roast turkey drumstick or casseroled turkey thigh meat chunks (which my cats like) . If you decide to give her roast turkey drumstick, cook it in a roasting pan with about 4 cms of water as stock and then cover tightly with baking foil to keep the meat moist. Cook on top shelf of oven for one hour gas mark 5. Strain off the stock when the meat is cooked and keep it to add to her meat each meal for fluid content.

    As she dislikes roast chicken or poached white fish, it might be an indication that she is intolerant of both those. (Some cats have an instinct about these things). You may even find if you cut chicken out of her diet completely and took her off the dry food, [which also contains chicken, as well as rice - rice is not good for sensitive bowels] that her stools would firm up anyway. Worth a try. :)
     
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  6. hamelli

    hamelli PetForums Junior

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    @chillminx awesome thank you. Is it possible with the novel protein, she may react badly? When giving her Macs mono sensitive she reacted very badly and I think it was because of the high protein content.

    Also just to add - there is no rice in her dry food as it’s grain- free.

    If a food is highly digestible does it often mean a cat will have soft stools?
     
    #6 hamelli, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  7. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    p.s. the Animonda Vom Feinsten for Neutered cats do a pure turkey recipe.
     
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  8. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    A cat could in theory react badly to any new food, even a novel protein. What is more likely IME, is that with the scent of the novel protein food being strange to the cat they may view it with suspicion and refuse to eat it.

    Generally the most acceptable novel protein to Uk cats seems to be Kangaroo. This was the case with my 3 whom I put on novel protein diets for 8 weeks. I started with reindeer but they all refused it, then goat and they all refused it. Then kangaroo and they all loved it! They all still enjoy kangaroo in their diets, either the canned stuff (made by Catz Fine Food in their Purrr range) or fresh kangaroo meat which I casserole for them.

    With Macs Mono protein it may not have been the actual meat protein itself she reacted to. It could have been one of the other ingredients. In fact my 2 boys with IBD do not get on well with Macs Mono sensitive whereas my boy with dermatitis gets on fine with it. But he doesn't have tummy problems (only skin issues).
     
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  9. hamelli

    hamelli PetForums Junior

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    @chillminx thank you. She has only been on kattovit gastro for about 2 weeks so i am going to give it another two weeks to buy some kangaroo. Should i stop dry food for now or maybe feed her little and often to see if it helps? Today she has had 3 very soft large stools but with no smell really. 3 is quite a lot for her in one day.
     
  10. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    Large stools in a cat are typical of a diet high in carbs. It is not good for their bowels to be producing large stools. Normal, healthy cat poo should be quite small, compact and firm.

    Adult cats on a healthy diet should be passing a stool only once a day, less often on a raw diet as there is so little waste in a raw diet. Soft large stools are a sign she is producing too much waste, there is too much bulk in her diet, for a cat.

    Kattovit Gastro contains rice which is not great for cats with loose or soft stools. However my advice would be to persevere with this for the time being and cut out all dry food. Just feed her the Kattovit gastro.

    Feeding her the dry food 'little and often' will be just as bad for her as feeding her a larger amount less often - it all ends up in the same place. :)

    The Sainsbury's dry food you are feeding her also contains rice, but probably more rice than the wet Kattovit. You really need to get the rice out of her diet, and I would start by giving up the dry Sainsbury's chicken and rice.

    It is possible that if you exclude all grains from her diet (including rice) the consistency and size of her stools might improve considerably and therefore you may not need to do an elimination diet. It may be the case she is not allergic to any of the meat proteins, but purely to grains (including rice).
     
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  11. hamelli

    hamelli PetForums Junior

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    @chillminx ah okay! I was looking for rice on the ingredients but couldn’t see it so it must be under minerals or something. Does grain free not always mean rice free? I have heard bad and good things about kattovit. I have been looking around pets at home and thought Wainwright’s or James Wellbeloved (grain free recipes) might be my next try if the Kattovit still fails to meet expectations. Any info/experience on these? Or just go full in with the elimination diet. At the moment refuse to go with RC or Hills because they are extortionately priced and apparently aren’t very good.
    Will continue just with kattovit for a week or two and see if her stools firm up a bit and watch out for any other signs. Thanks for your help
     
  12. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    I wouldn't feed her the Wainwrights tins because the food contains tapioca which can cause upset tummies in some cats.

    The Wainwright pouches would be better as they don't list tapioca as an ingredient and claim to be single protein. I would avoid the tuna flavour, as tuna is not great for cats, except as an occasional treat.

    https://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/...ainwrights-cat-adult-chicken-pouches-12-x-85g

    I'd give the James Wellbeloved pouches a miss, as the recipe contains pea protein (as a substitute for some of the meat protein) as well as cassava, and potato starch, so it's quite high in carbs for a wet food. Pea protein is difficult for cats to digest so goes through the digestive system as bulk or filler.
     
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  13. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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  14. Tigermoon

    Tigermoon PetForums VIP

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    This along with the vomiting, are pretty classic allergy symptoms, most likely to something she was eating. As these have stopped it sounds as if the allergen has been removed.
    What diseases was she tested for? The main disease I would test any cat with constant diarrhoea for is Tritrichomonas foetus. This is not included in a routine fecal test and must be requested separately. Ideally stool samples are collected over three days and the best ones to use are sloppy ones. So before you do anything else check whether this has been tested for.
     
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  15. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    Good point about testing for T.Foetus @Tigermoon. :)
     
  16. hamelli

    hamelli PetForums Junior

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    @Tigermoon she was tested for this yep. it was all clear. this was months ago though, so maybe another test might be necessary. thanks !

    are wainwright’s good for tummies? after eating just kattovit this morning she had a big lot of soft smelly poop.
     
  17. hamelli

    hamelli PetForums Junior

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    do you have a list of grain free / rice free cat food which is good for IBD/curing diarrhoea? you mentioned animonda von feinsten which i may buy. anything on animonda integra? there is so much choice! @chillminx
     
  18. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    Kattovit contains rice as I mentioned earlier - it could well be the rice causing the soft poo. The smelliness is because the food is passing too quickly through her gut so it is not being properly digested.

    I'm sorry I don't know how suitable Wainwrights pouches would be for her, as I have never used them for my cats.

    After spending a year trying this food and that food to try and find one my 2 cats (brothers) with IBD could tolerate, I found Animonda Vom Feinsten for neutered cats. which has been great for them.

    You could try Pammy with Animonda Integra Protect Sensitive. My cats didn't get on with it, one refused to eat it, and it made the other one vomit.

    Every cat is different so I can't promise you 100% that A.V.F. for Neutered Cats will cure Pammy's diarrhoea. I can only tell you of my positive experience of it with my cats. Their vomiting stopped straight away and the diarrhoea or soft stools reduced from 3 times a week to about once every 3 or 4 months.
     
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  19. Loki&Baelish

    Loki&Baelish PetForums Member

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    Regarding kattovit, I use this for my bengal, he really struggled with the other foods but it was a variety pack and I was never able to determine what was causing the problem. One thing I would say though, he was producing perfect stools within 1 week of being on kattovit and has been for over a year now. I recommended it to a friend who had the same problem with her cat and altough it helped it never fully fixed the problem. I remember how frustrating it was before we managed to find something to help him so I really feel for you. Goodluck.
     
  20. hamelli

    hamelli PetForums Junior

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    which kattovit was he on? thank you, i’m glad i’m not alone. it’s just gone on too long! it’s often purebreds that have these sort of issues isn’t it? i think our gal is purebred BSH (i’m honestly not sure) so that may contribute !

    also @chillminx thank you :D
     
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