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Kitten refund

Discussion in 'Cat Chat' started by JohnAdams8, Jan 11, 2022.


  1. JohnAdams8

    JohnAdams8 PetForums Newbie

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    Hello. I bought a kitten from a breeder almost 1 year ago. The kitten was fine, had all its vaccinations and treatments and vet check ups and has lived with us from 13 weeks old. Recently it died from HCM. Am I within my rights to ask for a refund back from the breeder for the kitten?
     
  2. Lunarags

    Lunarags Dedicated cat slave

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    oh no im so sorry. hcm is a horrid disease and it can take them away from us so fast...
    is hcm a known risk of the breed? what breed was it?
    ragdolls breeders are not allowed to breed from cats carrying the hcm gene, and i know its a known condition in maine coons as well. i dont know the rules for tica although i can certainly have a look if no-one else who knows the answer chips in here. if it is against the breeding policy for the breed you had then you would be within your rights in my opinion to ask for your money back although there are no laws to support you as far as i know. you might be offered another kitten instead by the breeder. for the cat to have hcm both parents must carry it so you should definitely inform the breeder anyway as two hcm carriers are not a good breeding pair and should not be bred together again. i suspect these two have produced other hcm positive kittens as well if they have had previous or subsequent litters. It might have been an honest mistake if this isnt a breed where hcm is regulated, just like two humans producing a child with cystic fibrosis or other recessive condition, without knowing they carry the gene. it should definitely be looked into though, even if it was an honest accident, and i would say it should also be reported to TICA to make sure the breeder doesnt use this pair again but others may think that would be a step too far

    my prayers will be with your little one tonight xxx
     
  3. blackislegirl

    blackislegirl PetForums Junior

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    What a devastating thing to happen. I am so very sorry. Sadly, I think you'd be lucky to get much out of the breeder. I lost my beloved blue Burmese Wolfie 11 months ago, when he was nearly 4, to what the vet (a specialist consultant) called an 'unspecified'cardiomyopathy.' He said that in a cat so young it would have been a hereditary condition and advised me to speak to the breeder - not for a refund, but to tell them what had happened. I did so. The breeder was very sad to hear the news, but said the stud was not hers, and that there was a 'question mark;' now over the stud's bloodline. She gave me the name and number of the stud's owner. This lady was willing to talk to me, but denied any faults in her stud or his bloodline, which in fact she was still breeding from as of April this year.

    When I was looking for kittens this spring, I studied the pedigrees of parents of possible kittens to be sure there were no cats of the suspect bloodline and no cats related to my Wolfie's father. Yes, bad stuff happens, sometimes we are unlucky, but also I think breeders should be doing more to work with vets and collect data. Kittens are sold and mostly lost track of, so breeders can legitimately say they haven't heard of health issues when in fact they know nothing at all about health problems developing in the animals they have bred.
     
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  4. teddylion

    teddylion PetForums Senior

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    This is just so sad. Was it a ragdoll? I've read a few threads on Mumsnet about owners whose ragdolls have died young of sudden heart failure etc, I'm sure it's because of unscrupulous breeding. When you buy certain breeds you need proof that both their parents are free of the genes known for causing HCM - did the breeder provide this?

    I doubt you'll get anything back from them after a year, but I would definitely let them know what happened.
     
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  5. Maurey

    Maurey Maine Coon Madness

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    I’m so sorry for your loss. I’d get in touch with the breeder, either way. If they’re reputable, they’re likely to either compensate you, or offer a new kitten, even if it’s currently past the health guarantee of the contract. Additionally it’s important for them to know, as it should affect their breeding plans — some cats may get retired from breeding, like your kitten’s parents or littermates.

    Assuming this is a cat of an HCM breed, HCM N/N cats can still have affected offspring, as it’s a polygenic condition, and the breeds that have tests only have it for a single gene. It’s a large part of the reason why HCM screening (ultrasounds) when breeding is crucial, and why many breeders will recommend new owners keep up with HCM screening every other year, just to make sure all is going well.
     
  6. Tigermoon

    Tigermoon PetForums VIP

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    While there are bad breeders out there, no breeder can guarantee that they are producing HCM free animals, test or no test. Even echo scans only tell you what the heart is like at that moment not what it'll be like tomorrow. One needs to remember that HCM isn't just a disease of pedigree cats either, moggies are just as likely to be affected.

    Cardiomyopathy can be inherited or acquired. The nature of the inherited disease is that the heart can be affected to any degree. Some of those affected die very young, others die of old age of something else entirely, there really is absolutely no way of knowing which way an Cardiomyopathy affected heart will go. Given that in humans over 1500 causative genes have been identified so far there will never, ever be a guarantee of HCM free status in pet animals.

    In the case of the OPs kitten, I don't know what breed it is but if the breeder sold the kitten in good faith, having passed two veterinary checks in full health and, if of a breed that there is a DNA test available the parents were tested clear, then there really isn't any more they could have done.
     
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  7. teddylion

    teddylion PetForums Senior

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    We don't know whether the breeder bothered with a test of any kind. Any updates?
     
  8. QOTN

    QOTN PetForums VIP

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    I completely agree with @Tigermoon. I suspect very few cats who go on to develop HCM are detectable if scanned as kittens. Obviously no reputable breeder uses a cat with known HCM for breeding but these conditions often only manifest themselves later in life. Even Ragdolls and Maine Coons who are tested clear of their identified genes can develop HCM for a completely different reason not even connected to their genetic makeup.

    Research into genes responsible can only be carried out when a problem is identified and that will happen if many cases appear in a certain breed or line. I have to say that when I was breeding I had a clause in my contract which stated owners should update me at least once a year on how their cat was. This was to find out if they were happy and/or healthy in their home but sadly the numbers of owners who kept in touch with me throughout their cats' lives was tiny compared to the numbers who apparently willingly signed the contract.
     
  9. teddylion

    teddylion PetForums Senior

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    HCM can develop at any time for any older cat, but it's usually as a side effect of another, age-related condition. For a breed like ragdolls it often gets them very young - certainly the cases I've heard about have all been around two years of age or even younger.

    I've found that unfortunately not many breeders perform the echocardiogram, which only leaves the Langford test. While it doesn't guarantee they won't have problems, it significantly reduces the risk because young cats dying from it is almost always caused by genetics.
     
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