Welcome to PetForums

Join thousands of other pet owners and pet lovers on the UK's most popular and friendly pet community and discussion forum.

Sign Up

Kill puppies of illegal breeds?

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by shibby, Apr 5, 2011.


  1. shibby

    shibby PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    3,280
    Likes Received:
    63
    Luciana Berger, Labour MP for Wavertree, said last night: "Police forces are shelling out thousands, if not millions of pounds on kennelling. What makes the situation worse is that there is no provision in current legislation for the police to recover the money they've spent looking after the dogs, before the legal process has ended.


    "This situation cannot continue, particularly at a time when the police are facing 20 per cent cuts. Police should be given the power to put down the puppies of illegal breeds; a nationally accredited register of dog experts would clarify who can identify a dangerous dog, and offences that take place on private land should be considered in the same way as those in public spaces."

    Read more: 'Devil dogs' costing police millions - UK, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk



    :rolleyes: I find this woman a complete and utter moron (she's a local MP). What do you think of her 'suggestion' of culling puppies? Could you really trust these 'experts' to accurately identify a banned breed at such a young age? Where's the punishment for the 'breeder'?
     
  2. Phoenix&Charlie'sMum

    Phoenix&Charlie'sMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    71
    How can you possibly tell if a puppy is a dangerous breed???

    They arent fully formed so they cant go on the "legs are too long" basis, all puppies nip so are they going to see that as aggressive??

    This is ridiculous!
     
  3. Helbo

    Helbo PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Messages:
    4,164
    Likes Received:
    119
    Why don't we identify 'dangerous' people too and lock them up BEFORE they've commited a crime? Better yet, lets do this to little babies...:glare:
     
  4. Johnderondon

    Johnderondon PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    131
    Ms. Berger does not seem to understand that we do not have any banned 'breeds' in the UK. We have banned 'types'. Breed is determined by parentage. 'Type' is determined by conformation and so cannot be determined during puppyhood.

    The amount spent by police forces on kennelling is in the millions, not thousands (one might have imagined that she would have educated herself on issues she wishes to pontificate on) but then if police used their 'Leave-at-home' option more widely or, and here's a crazy idea, focused on dogs and owners who are actually behaving dangerously rather than dogs that look wrong they might find those kennel bills a bit easier.

    Her notion of extending the DDA to include private property smacks of digging a deeper hole. The DDA contains no defence of provocation, tresspass or the like and I shudder at the injustices that such an extension could bring.

    Luciana Berger is giving Kit Malthouse a run for his money in the 'Madder than a box of frogs' sweepstake.
     
  5. shibby

    shibby PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    3,280
    Likes Received:
    63
    I agree. I'm not positive, but I think the reason behind the private property point may be due to the sad case of a little boy who was killed by a Pit Bull Terrier in his grandmothers home. Berger frequently mentions his case in her 'dangerous dogs' articles on her website.
     
  6. lilwolfcub01

    lilwolfcub01 PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    1
    sounds to me like that woman needs to be locked up her self. I think she is cruel and out of line. The amount of puppies out there that nip are pretty much all of them. Not to mention the list of dangerous dogs have changed so many times over the years, Its now imposible to know witch ones are classed as dangerous dogs. What about the dangerous people out there that are on the wanted list why doesn't she spend more time worring about them than worring about little puppies that might or might not be dangerous dogs.

    Most people think when you say dangerous dogs think doberman, rotti, german sheperd, pitbull and staffy. When infact its not the dog thats dangerous its the owner behind the dog. All dogs are good dogs it just depends on how they are brought up.
     
  7. SophieCyde

    SophieCyde PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,775
    Likes Received:
    29
    there really are some idiotic people in this world

    what about the millions of pounds we waste giving murderers x-box's and fun days out and whatever else , but no lets kill puppies for what they 'may' look like ....

    anyone who can pts an innocent puppy imo is extremely heartless....
     
  8. shibby

    shibby PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    3,280
    Likes Received:
    63
    I agree with your comments, like I said, it's not the first time she's suggested or done something completely idiotic and offensive :rolleyes: Just shows you how out of touch some MPs are. I think this is one of her 'main' issues that she campaigns for as well, you'd think she'd educate herself on the subject first! What a prat.
     
  9. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    18,039
    Likes Received:
    13,914
    We do have banned breeds, the pitbull is the only breed that is actually resident in this country but there are 2 other named banned breeds. It is just unfortunate that the pit bull is not easily recognisable.

    the DDA has been extended in Scotland to include private property and also to include risk to other animals which is great I think - I would have thought most people would have been glad of that. there has always been a law against dogs biting people on private property anyway and I know someone who had to have her dog put down because it bit a visitor that trod on it while it was asleep.
     
  10. All I will say is that I hope this woman loses her seat at the next election!
     
  11. Johnderondon

    Johnderondon PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    131
    Nah. The American Pit Bull Terrier has never been recognised as a breed in the UK. The relevent legislation is section one of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 which refers only to 'types' and never breeds. This was, I think, a deliberate choice to avoid the courts becoming immeshed in questions of what constitutes a breed - is a three-quarter pit bull still a pit bull? Half pit? One quarter pit and three quarter staff? The word 'type' bypasses all such issues and determines which dogs are banned by way of their physical shape rather than their heritage.

    This loose definition of what is a pit bull also explains the lack of precise clarity because to qualify as 'type' as dog need only satisfy a "substantial number of characteristics of an American Pit Bull Terrier". In practice this amounts to approximately 60%. The standard used is the ADBA 1988 breed standard for APBT - a standard that has changed a number of times since '91 but is still the one used by UK courts today.

    You can read more here:

    DDA 1991 | Detail and practice.

    I am not glad because, as I said, the Act allows no defence of provocation, tresspass, etc. and I also think it unreasonable to criminalise a dog and owner should a dog chase (and thereby give reasonable apprehension of injury) to a cat/squirrel/fox in its own garden.


    There is the Dogs Act 1871 which covers private property but the burden of proof is higher than for the DDA in that dogs must be shown to be both dangerous and out of control - dangerously out of control is not sufficient and one incident is not usually enough to do so.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice