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Just one litter before they get done

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by Sleeping_Lion, Aug 25, 2013.


  1. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    What motivates people to have a litter from their bitch/dog, before they have them spayed/neutered?

    I'm meaning more those who don't *do* anything, or have a long term plan, but just *want* one litter from/by their dog before they have them done?

    The reason I'm asking is that I personally, can't get my head round it, I suppose I used to think like this before I realised how much is, or should be, involved with breeding, and my perception of breeding has changed with the knowledge I've gained, and I still very much think of myself as a beginner. Now, I couldn't contemplate owning a bitch and simply breeding a one off with no real reason, or even having a dog (in fact the thought terrifies me) and using them at stud, just the once. For me, stud dog ownership holds more responsibility as they are capable of producing so many more pups, and the temptation may be to go past that one litter for no *real* reason.

    I just wonder why people want to allow their dog/bitch to procreate that once? Particularly when people speak about breeding from a pup who has yet to mature and may not mature for two, three years.
     
  2. Lurcherlad

    Lurcherlad PetForums VIP

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    The whole idea of it makes me groan with despair :(

    I wish there was some way of preventing the "average" dog owner from breeding from their pet. (Or any other animal tbh) :frown2:
     
  3. sharloid

    sharloid PetForums VIP

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    Because Kindra is so pretty that I want to see lots of mini little Kindra's running around.

    ;):frown2:
     
  4. AlexArt

    AlexArt PetForums Senior

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    I heard a great one the other day - a lady posted on my local FB page she was expecting a litter of pugs - no papers so was selling cheap i.e.. £650! I simply asked if they were health tested - got a tirade of abuse saying what business was it of mine, I wrote a couple of sentences saying did she realise the problems pugs have and the need to test so the pups have a good chance at being healthy and that a c-section was also highly likely etc etc.
    Anyway she came back with the reason she was breeding as "it was good for a dog to have a litter as it helps them loose weight" - I kid you not!!!!:eek: She also went onto to say how she was breeding cheap pugs "so that people like single mothers on benefits could afford to have this lovely breed instead of paying the extortionate prices other breeders were charging for the same thing and that she was doing her bit to help poorer people" - head desk moment!!!:mad2:
    She even got a whole load of supporters from chavs saying they could never afford a pug if people like her didn't breed cheap ones - from those responses I never even bothered to reply that those poorer owners were unlikley to then be able to afford the vast amounts of potential vet bills these pugs could cost their new owners!!!!!:eek: :eek:
    You couldn't make this stuff up - and we wonder why there is a problem with bybs!!!!!!:rolleyes:
     
  5. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    Chuff!!!!! :eek:
     
  6. sharloid

    sharloid PetForums VIP

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    Oh my, that's unbelievable. :mad2:
     
  7. Freyja

    Freyja PetForums VIP

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    Because some vets encourage people to breed. Years ago when my mum took her whippet to the vets she wanted to have her spayed. The vet told her she should have a litter first because there aren't many decent whippet brood bitches around:rolleyes: We are talking about a bitch who had been hit by a car and fractured her pelvis when my mum pointed this out he said they could deliver the pups by cearsarian:mad2:. Fortunately my mum said no way and this was the vet who had actually treated her after being hit by the car not a different one so knew of her history.

    I also know someone who has a cockerpoo and the vet asked if she was going to use him as a stud.
     
  8. 8tansox

    8tansox PetForums VIP

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    I think I've heard every excuse/reason there is for breeding from their family pooch. I am tired of saying the same old thing week in, week out and I'm afraid now I tell it like it is. I've tried being polite, I've tried explaining about rescues being stuffed to the gunnels. I now just tell them if they plan on having a litter, to make sure they have Contracts in place, with a breeding clause in it, and a return clause - at any age of the dog, for what ever reason, and, remind them of the trade descriptions act, fit for purpose etc. etc. so if the dog they bred is defective in ANY way, they can be sued....that usually pricks their ears up, but not always.

    I will NEVER give up banging on about byb's though. Funnily enough, not one person who has bred such a litter considers themselves to be a byb, they don't like the term. TOUGH. That's what they are!

    Sorry, rant over, I didn't mean to go off on one! :shocked:
     
  9. labradrk

    labradrk PetForums VIP

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    Oh it's most definitely believable. Last week at work we had a 5 year old 'handbag dog' Pug from a BYB put down as it's been in and out of the vets since its young owner bought it. This "cheap" Pug was an absolute state and could barely breathe. The girls grandparents pay for all the dogs bills but the final straw was yet another eye surgery; they couldn't afford the £800 bill so the dog was PTS. That is just the tip of the iceberg with Pugs and Pug crosses.
     
  10. labradrk

    labradrk PetForums VIP

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    As for the original question....

    1. The myth that "bitches must have a litter before they are spayed or they never settle". It is still prevalent in the older dog owning community.

    2. "My dog is SO unique and there is no other dog in the world like him/her". A lot of people seem to be under the impression that their dog possesses traits, be it physically or personality wise, that few other dogs have. Well, the sheer nature of breeding purebred pedigree dogs is that you are breeding for uniformity so by definition, yes the odds are that there are tons of dogs out there who are exactly like your own. As much as we like to believe that our dogs are 'one of kind', it is of course BS.

    3. "Tons of my family and friends have said they would love to have a puppy just like _____ and ask when we are breeding from him/her". Getting a puppy usually seems like a fleeting good idea for many but how many people will change their mind?

    4. Money or 'getting something back' from the dog/bitch. I think a lot of people see the prices that some breeds are and see the pound signs in their eyes. What could be easier than making a couple of grand on a few puppies, right? that is the annual trip to Barbados taken care of.

    5. 'Bettering' the breed. I see this phrase banded around a lot and I have to admit, it does baffle me. There is no doubt that SOME very good breeders might be improving the breed in some respect, but realistically how many breeders are contributing something other than the norm to the breed? I think this relates back to my point #2 and a lot of people have a very jaded view of their dogs capabilities. If you are 'bettering' the breed - prove it!
     
  11. kodakkuki

    kodakkuki PetForums VIP

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    we (as in mum and me) started with her wanting just the one litter from her yorkie, so i could keep a puppy. i did the research etc, and the puppy i got was kuki... but i fell in love with the research- and breed of course.
    to me, the learning about the breed was the most fun bit at the start... and in that one litter we definitely did improve on the previous generation (no offense to missy!) and from there i've decided i may well breed on from missys granddaughter- in fact, i may well end up importing the semen to breed her in the future- well, it's on the cards anyway!

    so that was a one litter breeding (she did breed missy 3 times in the end)... but assuming that is by far an anomalous result from the situation...
     
  12. lilythepink

    lilythepink PetForums VIP

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    I think its all for money and nothing to do with it being a good idea for the bitch.

    Look at any shelter you like and they are all full of dogs.some pedigrees some pure breds and some very expensive dogs...dogs therefore must be so easy to breed and relatively risk free......licence to print money almost cos lets face it, anybody can and does do it.

    and once a BYB has a litter and everything goes ok and just pure profit then why not get another bitch.oh and your own stud dog, not having some half wit who happens to own a dog tell them what to do..cheaper to buy your own than pay a stud fee anyway.

    Hang on a minute.....those dogs fetch a lot more money, lets dump this lot in the local shelter and buy some of those.oh look, somebody selling a couple of older ones already and the ad says, "Due in season this month".oh yes, regular little cottage industry......millionaires overnight.
     
  13. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    1) As an excuse to make money
    2) The old hysteria idea that's still floating around that they have to have at least one litter
    3) They want another of their dog and don't understand genetics enough to realise this is incredibly unlikely
    4) They like puppies and don't realise the amount of work and heartbreak that goes into this
     
  14. newfiesmum

    newfiesmum Banned

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    I don't know that they necessarily want a litter, but there is a tradition that it is unfair to the dog to not let her have just one litter. It is the age old problem of humanising the dog. Some women go through agonies as they approach the age where they will not longer have a choice, and they just think that their bitch will feel the same.

    It is like the other tales of bull breeds having locking jaws, and raw meat will give a dog a taste for blood. Easy to pass down these ideas, but impossible to get rid of.
     
  15. 8tansox

    8tansox PetForums VIP

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    You ought to see the size of a house/property & land that a local byb has around here....it IS easy money if you don't do everything properly and he had litter after litter, he bought puppies from motorway service stations and sold them, because he had a nice big house, people were happy to part with their hard earned cash.

    He sells:

    Golden Retrievers
    Yorkshire Terriers
    West Highland Whites
    Bichon Frises and now.....



    Malamutes.


    He is very clever and doesn't display the puppies, (because they are kept in squalour) but brings out cute little bundles, dirty, but people don't want to send them back into those surroundings..... so they buy them instead.




    It's just heartbreaking. RSPCA have said the puppies have everything they need, bedding, shelter, water and food. :mad2:
     
    #15 8tansox, Aug 25, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
  16. newfiesmum

    newfiesmum Banned

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    I have to wonder just how these so called RSPCA officers would like to live with what they consider to be "everything they need?"

    When my brother asked me about buying a golden retriever puppy, he was considering an ad in the yellow pages of all places. They had many different breeds. I told him if there are more than two breeds, run. Even then, they need to have been breeding from those two specific breeds for years, not changing with the fashion. I prefer my puppies to come from breeders who are only interested in one breed, but I suppose two isn't too bad.
     
  17. Doguiesrus

    Doguiesrus PetForums Senior

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    I always think this. Now my plan was to have a litter as my girl is 3.5 now and is never tried before so I thought time wasn't on our side etc Anyway I wanted because I have shown her she has done fantastic. Has a exceptional bloodline that I'm proud off and same with the sire. I wanted to keep two back for show. The lady up the road has chihuahuas and she said she wanted a litter and when I asked why she replied well if I have 4 pups its paid me back for buying her, feeding her and any vets! Wow. I explained that health checks cost and csection a were almost the cost or more and then weaning, registering etc! She just looked at me like I was alien! I will tell anyone that breeding doesn't make you money! I would need to sell my pups at 2500 each to get anywhere near my outlay! But the satisfaction and tears of joy in a couple of year when the puppy I bred wins crufts and becomes a world champion! Hahaha well that will make it worth every penny and loss of sleep, grey hairs and anything else!
     
    Sled dog hotel likes this.
  18. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    That's a puppy farm surely not a byb :mad: and we know the rspca is useless. It's disgusting surely there has to be someone else he can be reported to.
     
  19. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    I think its likely a mixture of reasons, all mostly misguided I might add and not a good reason for any of them.

    Sentimental reasons - thinking that they would like another dog just like the one they have with the same personality and/ or looks and that it would be nice to have one of their pups. Also not having the relevant knowledge and understanding they often don't realise that the Pups are not going to be mini replicas and although may have some similarities they are not going to necessarily be what they think.

    Old wives tales- things that some who haven't knowledge also believe that its good for a bitch to have a litter and the experience first, or its good for a male to be bred from. I have encountered people who still honestly believe it and recently too.

    Financial reasons - that pups can be sold for x amount they can have x number of pups so that would equal a nice sum total and it would only be the once anyway, especially if the thought behind it is a combination aswell with the one or the other two. Ive also seen a lot of stud dogs on various sites that are just pet dogs at x-amount stud fee, so I think financial reasons does into it a lot.

    I should think that's three of the main reasons or the most common ones Ive heard anyway. As most people who do it for these reasons also lack any sort of knowledge about genetics, health problems, or breeding and what it entails anyway and just believe that its just going to be a "natural" easy straight forward process.

    In all honesty I don't think a lot of vets always help the situation either when owners mention they are going to stud or breed just the "once" and in a way sometimes actually encourage it even more, instead of making owners aware of what they need to do and that it might not be such a good idea.

    If its any consolation I cant get my head around it either. Even though Nanuq for example is a rescue and spayed, Ive had several comments when I say she like the others is spayed and neutered, "I thought you would have had a litter first" Ive also lost count of the number of approaches Ive had in the street, to breed from them. Either using the persons "stud dog" or being asked to use mine as "stud".
     
  20. 8tansox

    8tansox PetForums VIP

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    Who? Who do you report people like this to though? He is a puppy farmer, there is no doubt about it, but to look at his house and cars he drives, people think he's respectable. He lies through his teeth, someone in our village was delivering the local rag and they walked through his large wrought iron gates, which were open, to which the guy literally frog-marched him off his property. A very unpleasant man, who sells very poorly puppies.

    Again, sorry to have gone off on one, he really does push my buttons.:(
     
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