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It's not breed advocacy to make this many egregious mistakes (Dog bite)

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by O2.0, Sep 10, 2019.


  1. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    https://www.tribtoday.com/news/loca...f5J1Je8ri6DZxXqJLbt44oq2YoFYa__mLelGTMCWHAwEM

    Okay, first off, yes, I know I only have one version of the story, but I'm angry.
    I'm angry because this is the sort of story that drives BSL and every single thing about it was preventable.

    1) Dog with a bite history being adopted out.
    Okay, putting on my hypocrite pants for a minute as we too took on a dog with a bite history. However, general rule for any reputable rescue is to NOT take any dog who has a bite history. For one the liability is insane, and two, dogs who have already bitten, without effective intervention, go on to bite again with more damage and less provocation.

    2) Dog with a bite history fostered by someone who needed to take the dog to a groomer to do his nails.
    Yes, I'm being judgy here, but come on. You're fostering a dog with a serious history and you can't even do nails? If it's that bad it should be sedation at the vet. If it's not that bad, why the heck can't you do it yourself at home? I would expect anyone with the necessary experience to handle a troubled dog with a history of biting humans to be able to handle a nail trim.

    3) Dog with a bite history taken to a groomer he's not familiar with to have his nails done, needs to be restrained, and NO ONE thought to put a friggin' muzzle on the dog?! Not the groomer, not the groomer's helper, not the dog's foster person, no one? Really? How can such a basic, simple precaution have been overlooked?!


    Gosh I feel so very badly for this poor woman who was just trying to help and do something nice. But love and good intentions is not enough! You have to know what you're doing.
    There are too many affable, uncomplicated pit bulls in rescue without bite histories who need advocates.
    And the poor dog. At least he finally got a humane death and there won't be some yahoo out there trying to 'fix' him :(
     
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  2. 3dogs2cats

    3dogs2cats PetForums VIP

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    O2.0 it might just be me but I cant access the article because I am not in the USA, other members not in the USA might have the same problem?
     
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  3. ShibaPup

    ShibaPup PetForums VIP

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    Sadly cannot see the article - "We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time."

    I can't agree with that statement more though!! Sadly all too often in many rescue groups - so many people have good intentions but they are seriously lacking ability. Even more sadly, people with good intentions seem to fall for the complicated or 'difficult' dogs without having the experience or support around them to actually help the dog :(

    Many probably won't agree - IMO too many wish to be a 'hero' or have a dog with 'issues / sob story' rather than consider if it's fair or right by the dog, or if they even have the ability and support network around them to make it possible. Or even consider the rescue place it's taking up when uncomplicated dogs are being euthanised every day.
    So often "He/She's a rescue and nervous, worried, shy, food aggressive, separation anxiety, hand shy - must have been so abused, beaten, starved, abandoned" :Stop I'm proud Lily is pretty bomb proof - regardless of her background - I think it's important to try and help dogs improve or at least cope better rather than use being a 'rescue' as an excuse like they can't be helped.
     
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  4. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    CP from the link, let me see if I can find another news article :)

    WARREN — A woman clipping the nails of a rescued pit bull was attacked by the animal until the dog’s adoptive owner stabbed it when both a Taser and pepper spray failed, according to a Trumbull County Sheriff’s Office report.

    Elizabeth Kesner, 52, Girard, was transported to St. Elizabeth Youngstown Hospital. She will need plastic surgery on her face and left ear, has compound fractures to both bones in her left arm and may have broken bones in her right hand, according to the report.

    Police were called just after 10 a.m. Sunday to 5939 state Route 5 in Cortland by Kristin Boyd, 33, who told the sheriff’s deputies she fosters dogs for Pitbull Advocates of Armstrong County in Kittanning, Pa., and had the animal — known as Boss or Lucian — for about four months.

    The agency did not respond to a message seeking comment, and neither did Boyd.

    The dog had a history of biting people but was up to date on shots, the report states.

    Kesner does dog grooming for Boyd, the report states. She was holding the animal while another woman attempted to cut its nails, but it began to growl, and when Kesner let go of it, it began attacking her, the report states.

    Boyd came in the garage when she realized something was wrong and used a Taser and pepper spray on the animal. When that didn’t work, she got a knife from the kitchen and stabbed it behind the rib cage on his right side, the report states.

    The dog then let go of Kesner, and Boyd put the animal in a cage.

    Officials from the Trumbull County Dog Warden took the animal to a clinic in Girard, where it was to be euthanized. It will be tested for rabies, the report states.

    The dog was once under the custody of the dog warden but released to the Pitbull Advocates of Armstrong County.
     
  5. Rafa

    Rafa PetForums VIP

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    Lost for words really.

    "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions".
     
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  6. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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  7. 3dogs2cats

    3dogs2cats PetForums VIP

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  8. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    Aw too bad...
    Well sadly it's about a pitbull biting, I'm sure the daily fail will pick it up soon enough :rolleyes:
     
  9. picaresque

    picaresque Mongrelist

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    It wasn't just a bite, let's be honest. The woman has broken bones and needs plastic surgery to her face.
     
  10. 3dogs2cats

    3dogs2cats PetForums VIP

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    I don't understand why a muzzle wasn't put on the dog, put a muzzle on get the job done, end of, why wouldn't they do that!
     
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  11. 3dogs2cats

    3dogs2cats PetForums VIP

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    Yeah that was some bite to do that amount of damage!
     
  12. mrs phas

    mrs phas my home, my sofa, my rules

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    As I often say, but it doesn't make me popular,
    Being pts is not the worse that can happen to any animal
    Too many dogs are turned away, because a rescue wants to shout its a no kill rescue
    Well, you know what, some dogs just are not fixable, ever
    Too many dogs are dying inch by inch, behind the scenes, spending the rest of their life in the rescue, in an 8x6 run with a kennel attached, stressed beyond all belief, all for the want of that no kill kudos
    For gods, and dogs, sake give them some peace and pts
     
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  13. 3dogs2cats

    3dogs2cats PetForums VIP

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    The rescue where the council takes stays had a dog they kept for years, poor dog was not able to be rehomed due to its aggressive behaviour. There is a group - friends of the rescue I think they are called who partly fund it, now I know some of the friends and they work really hard for the dogs and staff but unfortunately they got it all wrong with this dog. They insisted the dog could be helped and it was just negativity about his breed - a staffie - that was the problem, they funded a behaviourist but the dog was still not able to be rehomed but still they insisted the right home could be found, the staff could barely get close to the dog! I don't know what happened to him I hope sense finally won through and the poor trouble dog was pts.
     
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  14. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    No, definitely not 'just' a bite. Pretty sure I didn't say that though did I?

    That was some serious damage. Poor groomer, I hope she recovers fully.
    Makes me wonder what the severity of the previous bites were.
    There's a bite history and there's a bite history. Call me callous, but a dog who will bite and break bones - plural, has no place in society.

    On a separate note, it's a good reminder of how even some of the more nasty looking bites are in fact rather inhibited given the damage most dogs can do with little effort. Most dogs aren't really trying to hurt us even when they do bite.
     
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  15. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    Same here but it says it's because I live in the EU?
     
  16. Bugsys grandma

    Bugsys grandma PetForums VIP

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    I couldn't see the article at all either.
    But it sounds just horrendous, poor woman! I sincerely hope she makes a good recovery, and that the incident doesn't make her anxious and unable to do her job in the future. The groomers I know, absolutely love their jobs and don't really think of it as work, I hope that doesn't change for this lady, although sadly I suspect it might.

    I agree wholeheartedly with @mrs phas.
    Putting a very unstable, anxious, scared, aggressive dog to sleep is in my opinion a kindness.

    There are so many dogs in rescue, who are there through no fault of their own, family break ups, job changes, re location, owners passing away, so many reasons dogs are put in rescue, lovely friendly well adjusted dogs with no history of aggression, strays, like my Woody, who just need the chance to live in a family home.

    Obviously, some dogs with a bite history can be totally transformed. With the right person who has real experience and patience,and absolutely knows what they are doing. I think @StormyThais lovely boy Thai, may have had a bit of a bite history, ( sincere apologies @StormyThai if I have that wrong) and just look at him now! He is amazing!

    But I think we have to be realistic and admit that we can't fix every dog. Sometimes a dog just can't be rehabilitated, too much has happened to them, so as Mrs phas says let them have some peace and let them go with dignity.
    The poor dog in question must have been, extremely stressed, anxious and uncomfortable with the situation to be as aggressive as he was, and must, have been even more stressed after being sprayed with pepper spray, tasered and finally stabbed.

    An awful experience for everyone involved.
     
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  17. Beth78

    Beth78 PetForums Member

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    Gosh how horrible, the dog must have been very scared I suppose. And the groomer will now be permanently scarred both mentally and physically.
    Whisp came with a possible bite history (her back story is very foggy)
    She's never been to a groomers but I always muzzle her at the vets.
    And we are very careful of dog and human interaction due to her nervousness.
     
  18. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    Me too. There's a dog in my local rescue who's been there for over 6 years http://www.animalcare-lancaster.co.uk/content/dogs?animal=4962. I've met him out on walks a few times and he seemed fine, but apparently his first recourse is to bite when cornered, however unintentionally. The kennels look after him well - he's in a special block where no-one looking for a dog gets to see him, anyone interested has to make an appointment and talk to staff first and being there is really all he's ever known. He will probably stay there for life and many more animals - the shelter also takes cats, goats, pigs, rabbits and whatever - could have been helped with the resources Darcy has taken up.
    I can't say I haven't thought of taking him on myself, but going to agility shows through the summers, the liability/risk would be too great. A few months back, someone who has what is probably his litter brother said he was thinking of trying, but I think I persuaded him against it. That person just doesn't have the experience, having owned just one problem-free collie.
     
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  19. MissSpitzMum

    MissSpitzMum PetForums Senior

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    Somewhat on topic, but probably a little controversial? I'm not really sure, but here goes!

    In the same way a Collie may be predisposed to herd, can't some breeds be predisposed to aggression? I don't agree with our current BSL by any means, but I've always found it hard to accept the mantra that it is the owner, and not the dog. Like a farmer's collie learning to herd from it's baseline instincts - can't it be both?

    My dog is a Spitz - he came out the womb barking. As an owner I curbed it a great deal, but it'll still be his go to reaction when worried / excited / bored. He also has a chase instinct that was present during his first steps (I checked - I wanted the drive!) that I cannot hope to conquer when it comes to wildlife, something that is said about every Spitz breed I've looked into. Surely certain breeds that were bred to fight / hunt / guard will be more prone to aggression to varying degrees.

    For example - I've met a considerable amount of Akitas. Two wanted to eat my dog alive, a third was injured but I was told to stay away from helping because she bites people, and the rest were standoffish, at best. All but one (who let his now well known Akita just roam around the woods going for dogs!) were responsible owners with them on lead, so they weren't irresponsible owners after status dogs. Wasn't it also an Akita that performed his KC gold award at crufts, then went to maim a woman?

    I have to wonder how irresponsible it is to ignore breed predispotitions if the disposition isn't 'nice'.
     
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  20. lullabydream

    lullabydream PetForums VIP

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    Some breeds, bull breeds can be not tolerant of other dogs when mature. Doesn't necessarily mean they want to harm per se but quite happy left alone, not gregarious as say labradors with other dogs. Which many people can see as pain in the butt as they run over to all and sundry

    When we talk about breeds and dogs and what they were originally bred for no one seems to bat an eyelid at for example Rhodesian Ridge backs, which were bred to fight lions. Surely a dog as powerful as these, taking on a massive predator would be something to be wary of. However they aren't tarred with the same brush are they.. They aren't classed as a fighting dog, it's not in the name so people don't think anything of it. They are so diluted now, or should be in temperament due to breeding for temperament that they still have their traits but I can't see them seeking out any lions for a bit of fun to be honest.

    It's been said before the reason why staffies, pitbulls are used in fighting circles in this day and age sadly is because they are extremely biddable. No matter what rubbish the owners can put them dogs through, they can as a norm be still handled well by their owners. Any terrier such as a jack Russel would be just as tenacious to fight. That's why terriers as a whole are successful hunters but they aren't as forgiving to the owners.

    As a owner of toy dogs am appalled at what I see on YouTube. Dogs with no bark any more, funny videos of toy breeds doing a lot more than air snapping which owners find amusing. However because they are little, it's apparently hilarious.

    All dogs have teeth, all dogs can be aggressive. It's a normal emotion under the right circumstances. Some dogs, the more the practice just like anything, will become less resilient which could be down to temperament or probably a mix of nurture too.
     
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