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Itchy dog! HELP!

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by Scabbers, Aug 24, 2013.


  1. Scabbers

    Scabbers PetForums Senior

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    Ok my pup (nearly 9 month old) :D has always been VERY itchy since the day I have had him.

    I took him off wagg and put him on applaws but this turned out badly as he always had the runs. But I did notice the itching lessen to an extent.

    So I put him on coconut oil. He is on a tablespoon a day atm and he weighes 25kg.

    This past month we have been painting and me not knowing that paint is damaging didn't no to keep him away till it dried. He was sick the next day every time we painted. But we did not put it down to that. We were using gloss and oil based paints :yikes:.

    Since stopping painting he has not been sick once!

    But I have however noticed a large rash pop up under his armpits, belly, itchy/red ears, groin area, and thighs.

    So I started rubbing coconut oil into him every day for the past 6 days and took him to the vets who has put him on piriton 4mg 3x a day to see if that helps. The next is an elimination diet.

    Well atm he is currently eating 3 things, a tablespoon of coconut oil, a tablespoon of diatomaceous earth and his kibble (anything from 350 to 450g) of skinners duck and rice a day and that is all. He has been eating only this for 2 weeks now.

    Tomorrow I am going to cut the coconut oil and DE out of his diet and stop rubbing him down with it to see if he is allergic to them.

    The only 3 things he is eating then is rice, duck and oats.

    If I have already taken the allergen away (in his tinned tripe loafs he was eating 2 weeks ago) how long would it take for the rash to go?

    The coconut oil helped to an extent but to me it looks like it is getting worse to me. Meaning the rash seems to be traveling down his legs.

    It is not infected, mites or ringworm. The rash are raised red bumbs that last about 4 days get crusty and drop off and then more pop up it appears to replace them. He has not been exposed to any chemicals for at least a week.

    I see no real pattern to it.

    I want to no weather dermacton would be helpful? Being as coconut oil doesn't seem to be helping?

    My main questions are

    Would dermacton be worth a shot?
    Should I switch to another kibble or stick with the duck and rice for another month?
    If I did go onto an elimination diet like the vet wants I would rather put him on a raw version. Any suggestions with this idea?

    I am becoming frustrated with this and so is he! He has one of those puffed up collars on to stop him scratching but he can still scratch his armpits.

    EDIT : As a side note, there is no issue at all with his stools . Regular as clockwork and firm. He goes about 4 times a day.
    He can go off his food slightly sometimes. Such as he may miss breakfast but he is eating 450g a day sometimes! He is lethargic sometimes too. He is always chewing his feet too.

    How long does it take for an allergen to get out of the system.
     
    #1 Scabbers, Aug 24, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2013
  2. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    Sounds similar to Teebs (our T-Bo) he's been itchy for most of his life and now at 2 1/2 we've had his bloods sent to Belgium for allergy testing. My vet said its very rarely food related and usually plant based or house dust mites. If its seasonal its likely plant related but if its continual its mostly dust mites. His results came back a couple of days ago and he's not allergic to grains, grass, trees and plants, amongst other things but he is allergic to mites and mould.

    We have given consent to further test his bloods to find out exactly what mites he is reacting to (probably dust) and they make a desensitising serum which is then injected once a month to build up an immunity to the allergen. That too is made in Belgium, shipped to my vet and we will inject him ourselves to save the vet trip hassle. Bet said it may or may not work but in 87% of his clients it has. He's had piriton twice daily for months and although it does help slightly, it doesn't stop his itching and ear sensitivity

    While we're waiting for the allergen to be identified and we can give him the injections, he has been put on Atopica once daily and in four days he isn't itching at all. Its not a drug for long term use so the serum is necessary in order to get him off of it

    This testing is not cheap though, its £400 for initial tests and another £107 to have further tests to find what mite allergy he has. The Atoica also costs £100+ for one months supply. Teebs is insured but had he not been we'd have had to carry on with the little improvement but its great to see him comfortable and not scratching at last. :)
     
  3. Scabbers

    Scabbers PetForums Senior

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    I have no idea what yeast smells like but my friend came over and said he stinks of it. So yesterday after my post I bathed him in coconut oil. This morning its not looking as fierce.

    I think today I will bath him in dog tea tree shampoo as I know that kills yeast. I was feeding him a shedload of carrots before this :(

    Im hoping against hope that is what it is. How long of bathing him every day with either coconut oil/ tea tree shampoo should it start to die off if it is that?

    Thanks for your reply! :)

    I hope your poor doggie gets better soon! fingers crossed it works!
     
  4. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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  5. Scabbers

    Scabbers PetForums Senior

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    Thanks for the links! I will check them out!

    I also noticed, after I dried him off, minutes later he stank to high heaven again of old rotten socks
     
  6. maxandskye

    maxandskye PetForums Member

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    Please be very careful with regards to coconut oil because if he has a sensitive skin it could make him worse. I'm only saying this as I've been there with my girl, she was diagnosed as Atopic at 6 months old & is now 8 yr old.

    Believe me I have tried everything from raw feeding, immunotherapy, daily baths, coconut oil, lots of creams, hair sample testing ( complete waste of time ), food elimination diets ..honestly its been endless & its only in the past 3 or 4 yrs that I reluctantly gave in to daily steroids which she will be on for the rest of her life.

    Heres what my girl is on now:

    Fishmongers Salmon & potato
    Salmon Oil
    Daily grooming & if I miss a day she can break out.
    & of course the dreaded steroids.


    BTW, Yeast infections smell like strong cheese.

    Hope this helps ?
     
  7. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    One possibility is seborrhoea or seborreheic dermatitis. You usually get a terrible odour with that and baths do nothing or not for long to get rid of the smell. It is also itchy too. The itching and scratching can then give you other problems like bacterial infection on top.

    There are different types of seborrhoea a dry from that that causes dry scaly skin, a wet form that causes over production of sebum that makes the dog really have a foul odour and there is another form that is a mix between the two seborrheic dermatitis, even though there is the odour and over production of sebum the skin is dry and scaly and flaky aswell. Some breeds seem more prone to it then others.

    You can get a rash with it partly due to scratching so the rash and spots can either be bacterial secondary infection or sometimes because of the excessive sebum production the hair follicles get blocked too and cause little pus filled spots that erupt and then crust over.

    Lack of vitamins and omega 3 fatty acids can make it worse so sometimes its a good idea to give skin supplements containing omega oils and the vitiamins for the skin C,E,A

    Really you need to know what type his got if it is seborrhea to use the right shampoo for the type.


    You can get seborrhea as a cause on its own or as a second problem to other things like demodex, sarcoptic mites, hypo thyroid, flea allergies and food problems.

    You can get special shampoos to control seborrhea but it depends on which type he has as to which ones you should use. If he has got infection aswell he will need antibiotics.

    If you think it may be seborrhea in some form then there is more about it on the link below.

    Seborrhea in Dogs | Seborrheic Dermatitis Causes | VCA Animal Hospitals
     
  8. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    As an after thought there is a very good article on candida albicans which is classed as both a yeast and a fungus, lots of info on the article below about the condition an how to get rid of it.

    http://www.tristateweimrescue.org/storage/Coconut Oil.pdf

    Just as another thought too, did they do a skin scraping on him? Because sarcoptic is often missed on skin scrapings only about 20/50% of sarcoptic as they live and burrow into the skin are often missed. There is a blood test for sarcoptic antibodies that are accurate, but the dog has to have symptoms for about 8 weeks before the test can be done to allow detectable sarcoptic mange antibodies to build up. Just thought it worth a mention as seborrhea can be secondary to sarcoptic, plus sarcoptic mange caused red raised rash that crusts too.
     
    #8 Sled dog hotel, Aug 25, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
  9. Scabbers

    Scabbers PetForums Senior

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    Thanks for the informative post :D

    Im absolutely convinced this is what he has! I think he has a mix of both tbh. Would dermacton be of help here?
     
  10. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    Dermacton may help its certainly helped a lot of dogs with itchy skin, the shampoo bar I know is both anti bacterial and antifungal, and they also do the spray.

    If you think he has got the seborrheic dermatitis which causes both the greasy skin, smell but at the same time also has the flakes and crusts then Virbac do a Sebolytic shampoo that is used to treat dogs with both greasy and scaly skin conditions, that you can buy on line at vet pharmacies.

    Another good dog skin care range that I found that may help is the Biolife medicleanse range. Then contain natural ingrediants that should help if you want to have a look at that range and the ingrediants and what each does the link is below. There is some helpful information on skin problems and treatment regimes at the bottom.

    Skincare for Dogs - Bio-Life International Ltd

    Dermacton - Skin Relief for Dogs with Itchy Skin
     
  11. Scabbers

    Scabbers PetForums Senior

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    Thanks for your help. :D

    I guess its trial and error and seeing what works the best huh ;)

    I do notice it gets worse with humididty and heat. So i bath him every day then..
     
  12. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    I notice you said that he has always been itching from when you got him?
    But you said its deffinately not mites. Have you had it ruled out properly, because even skin scrapes can miss sarcoptic mites. In fact more are missed then found. There is a blood test that is accurate as long as its done about 8 weeks after itching and symptoms start. Seborrheic dermatitis can come as secondary too, as can bacterial infection due to the itching and scratching.
    Sarcoptic often gets itchier still in heat and humidity too.

    What treatment has he had veterinary wise over the time? If it is an allergy then anti histamines or a steroid shot or course of steroids usually stops it at least while they are on the treatment and sometimes a little while after, but if the allergen is still present it will usually re-occur, but if it does work even temporarily then usually its a good indication that it is some form of allergy either food, or environmental.

    If its bacterial as a first cause, the antibiotics if the right one for the type of infection and a long enough course again will work, or at least work on the infection part if there is secondary bacterial infection and make a partial differerence at east for a time but if there is another underlying cause it wont eradicate the itch or antibiotics wont clear it completely.

    Just mentioning it as it wouldn't be the first time, that dogs have been itching and sctratching and progressively getting worse over time in spite of antibiotics and steroids and its turned out to be sarcoptic mites, even with skin scrapings its got missed.
     
  13. Scabbers

    Scabbers PetForums Senior

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    TBH i went to the vets and asked their advice (i hate my vets!) and they gave me anti histamines to give him and told me to stop using chemicals and put him on a food elimination diet and to bath him with an anti bacterial shampoo.

    So i been bathing him when i think he needs it with tea tree shampoo for dogs.

    I wouldnt have said that the rash was bad enough to take him back as it has not changed. The vet said give it 4-6 weeks of him being off all cereals to see it is that :confused:

    So i have put him on raw.

    Will have a chat with them monday :eek:
     
  14. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    S0metimes its not a bad idea to try a different vet, sometimes a fresh set of eyes on a problem and different knowledge and experience can work wonders.

    One member whos dog was itchy from a pup and continued to have problems to nearly a year old and had been to see about 4 different vets, who gave abs steroids and allsorts, missed one vital thing even with a skin scrape he had had sarcoptic mange all the time. Had the treatment and didn't look back, so vets can and do miss things sometimes even the most basic.
     
  15. Scabbers

    Scabbers PetForums Senior

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    I have heard that advocate will kill sarcoptic mange.

    Thinking of treating the dog and cat with it just in case.

    Does it work and how often do you need to dose them if they do have it?

    Might as well treat them as they are due anyways
     
  16. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    Advocate is supposed to treat demodex and sarcoptic mites.

    For demodex is says every 4 weeks for 2/4 months

    For Sarcoptic 2 Separate doses 4 weeks apart.

    Full details of what advocate treats and dose is on links below.

    NOAH Compendium of Animal Medicines: Advocate Spot-on Solution - Dosage and administration
     
    #16 Sled dog hotel, Sep 5, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  17. Scabbers

    Scabbers PetForums Senior

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    Thanks for the speedy reply. How would you treat yourself for scabies. I asume that you should treat every one in the home?
     
  18. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    You would know if you had it you would be itching and getting a rash, often first place is on the hands and between the fingers where its most. It may not be that he does have it, but it has been known to be missed on skin scrapings more then its found and goes undiagnosed. You can test him for it with a sarcoptic manage antibody blood test. You cant test until about 8 weeks after its suspected or they have possible signs, as you have to wait for the sarcoptic antibodies to build up in their blood to detectable levels. That though is accurate as to if they do have it or not. I have had dogs with it over the years twice in fact, and never got it myself, the first time was pre spot on when you had to wash them in an awful wash which is still available from the vet or with a script. The second time I used stronghold spot on which worked, that too is vet only or with a script.

    Usually as far as I know if you have sarcoptic yourself you have to get it diagnosed and treatment from the Docs.
     
  19. babycham2002

    babycham2002 PetForums VIP

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    Found this after your other thread
    I would be going to a different vets

    You say you have started raw? when? what meats have you started with? are you doing it as an elimination diet

    Have you cut out ALL treats
    I really would advise getting a proper skin scrape/blood test done at another vets
    There was another girl on here with an extrememly itchy black lab and it went on for months and did turn out to be mange


    One of mine has seasonal allergies, a dose of collodial silver in his food each day has completely cleared them, I dont know if that is worth a try, at least it cant do any harm to try it
    Colloidal Silver | Natural Antibiotics | Natural Medication – UK Colloidal Silver
     
  20. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    We've just had Teebs allergy tested and its come back as mites/dust mites. We're currently waiting for a desensitising serum to be made in Belgium and he'll be injected with it once a month. You can't do anything about dust mites because they're everywhere, we don't have carpets but as the vet said just one could set him off and since houses have millions (carpets or not) there is no miracle cure but desensitising may help. He's also allergic to harvest mites but the CSJ skinny dog spray I use has stopped him biting his feet and legs after a walk.

    A colleague at work had the same allergy testing for her dog and the serum has stopped his itching altogether. The vet said its very rarely food related and mostly environmental.
     
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