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Is your cat peeing or pooing in the house? This is the HOUSE SOILING thread!

Discussion in 'Cat Training and Behaviour' started by Ceiling Kitty, Jul 7, 2014.


  1. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    Yes, she looks a bit older in your second photo, maybe about 7 weeks old.

    She is very pretty, lovely markings. I like her name - it suits her. :)
     
  2. Helena91

    Helena91 PetForums Newbie

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    She certainly is a pretty girl! Today has been very encouraging. No accidents all day. I did find her squatting on the sofa this morning and put her in her tray. She jumped out but I didn't put her back in. I sat by the tray myself though and dug in the litter with my finger (needs must :D) she watched for a while then jumped in herself and used it! For both jobs :D I have bought her a second tray too, it's in the hallway, she is allowed in the living room and hall (there is no door to the living room) I also bought special kitten litter which she seems to like, the other tray we had been using wood pellets, this is clay. She has been in the tray just to smell it and sit. This afternoon she has used the new tray twice :) She does seem to get quite upset about covering though, she takes a long time and ends up scratching the walls and floor instead of the litter, she sometimes squeaks while she's doing it too like she's getting frustrated.

    On a side note I wonder how much she should be eating? She weighs almost 700g now (she was barely 500g when we got her) We are feeding her Felix kitten wet food and some kitten milk. So far I have just kept a constant supply of food in her bowl but I don't know if that's the right thing to do.
     
  3. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    Hi @Helena91

    Yes, a very good idea to dig in the litter yourself (acting as Willow's substitute mum :)). Definitely the way to go - well done! (She would have seen her cat mum do that and would have in time learnt to copy her.) Very pleased to hear she used her trays for both number one and number two! Also glad she likes the clay litter.

    Kittens learn from their cat mums how to bury their deposits in the tray. Chances are Willow's mum didn't cover her own deposits and used to scratch at the walls and floor. If you're worried about your walls being scratched you could move the tray away from the wall a bit.

    But it's also more complicated than just learning from their mum, because instinct comes into it too. Their survival instinct tells cats to bury their deposits whenever they want to hide the evidence from potential predators. But their instinct to protect their territory tells them to leave their deposits uncovered when they want tell other cats who may 'pass by' that "this territory is already taken". Cats learn a lot of information about each other from sniffing their deposits. The fact you may have no other cats does not matter. To Willow there is the chance another cat (or a predator) may happen to come by.

    It is a shame Willow sounds upset, bless her, when she is trying to cover her deposits, but as long as she always has nice clean trays I would leave her to it. She will work out for herself whether she wants to bury deposits or leave them on display. Two of my cats rarely cover their poo in the trays but always cover their pee. ;)

    Regarding her diet, you are doing the right thing, letting her eat as much as she wants. She has a lot of growing to do, and needs a lot of energy, so she needs plenty of food. I would expect her to be eating around 200 grams to 250 grams of wet food at her age/weight. That's 2 to 2 and half pouches a day of Felix A.G.A.I.L. Does that sound about the amount she she is eating?

    She shouldn't really need kitten milk now she is weaned. Meat based foods are far more nourishing and are what help to build strong muscles. The risk if you give her milk is she will fill up on it, and eat less of the meat based foods. So I would save the milk for an occasional treat.

    It is good you are feeding her wet food but Felix is not the best as it contains a high percentage of vegetable protein substituted for some of the meat protein. Cats cannot utilise veg protein properly as they lack the right enzyme to process it. If you can manage to include some higher meat protein foods in her diet to bolster up the Felix, that would be excellent for her. e.g. foods such as Lily's Kitchen Kitten food, Natures Menu Kitten food, HiLife Chicken Dinner, Wellness Core, Meowing Heads. (all from Pets at Home).

    Or for better value for money buy online from places like Zooplus, where many of us buy our cat food. Have a look at the pinned thread on the Health and Nutrition boards, put together by one of our members, giving the carb content of all the 'good' makes of Zooplus food and choose foods that are 10% carbs or lower.

    https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads...-just-the-good-stuff-work-in-progress.440844/

    (worth noting that Zooplus have a good policy of refunding for all unopened packets or tins of food your kitten/cat refuses to eat) ;)

    Or add a little home cooked meat to her diet, e.g. chicken or turkey drumstick served without bone but with plenty of the nutritious cooking juices, or a little gently fried turkey mince (fried in animal fat not oil) or fried pork mince. It is OK for up to 20% of her diet not to have minerals and vitamins added.
     
    #383 chillminx, Feb 4, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  4. smiler84

    smiler84 PetForums VIP

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    Any tips for a cat who prefers to poop outside? This isn't a problem most of the time, but when she has to stay in (e.g. when we are away or out for the day) she is pooping in various locations round the house. I've tried adding in an additional box so she's got one on each floor of the house, I've also tried different litters.

    She wees in her box fine and the vets are happy that she's healthy...
     
  5. Helena91

    Helena91 PetForums Newbie

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    She does seem to be eating about 2 packs a day yes, we are at Petsathome tomorrow so I will have a look for those brands you mentioned :) She's having her jabs tomorrow, the vet thinks she's big enough now. We are doing very well with the litter tray, she has used it almost every time in the past couple of days, finally the washing machine is getting a break :p Thanks for all the help!
     

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  6. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    Happy to help. :) I'm very pleased to hear she is using the litter trays! Excellent news!

    Lovely photo - she is such a cutie,:)
     
  7. Emskielou

    Emskielou PetForums Newbie

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    Hiya!
    Me again!
    So I’ve tried the litter you recommended and natures menu wet pouches. Started with these on Sunday and had been going really well until tonight. Florence poo’d on the floor in front of her tray again. I think our other cat might have been nearby at the time so I’m wondering if it could be middening like u mentioned maybe? They do fight and hiss at each other and chase each other round the house, I guess regularly but not daily. I’ve always thought it was play fighting... but maybe not. Florence always seems to like to know where Flossy is so that’s why I thought they they get on. Her poos are formed and since the new food seem a bit softer. I’ve been scooping out any mess in the trays as often as I can and changing the litter regularly. Really disappointed as feel I’m now back to square one after investing in more expensive food and litter that I now am not sure are making any difference? Any other suggestions that might help? I really don’t want to get rid of her but if I can’t resolve the issue feel like that’s my only option.
    Thanks in advance for your help
    Emma x
    w
     
  8. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    @Emskielou -

    Hi Emma, thank you for the update. :)

    I think it is much too soon to give up yet. These things can take a bit of time to resolve sometimes especially if it has been going on for a while. It needs time to work out what the cause is, and finding the solution can be a matter of trial and error. To be fair, I would give it 3 months.

    if Florence's poos have gone a bit soft again then probably the new diet is not suiting her. You will be able to exchange the unopened Natures Menu pouches for another food as long as you have the receipt. Pet stores are good about this these days.

    If you are going to Pets at Home, maybe try Wainwrights tins or HiLife Chicken Dinner pouches. It may need a few trials to find the right food. Are you avoiding dry food for her her and not giving her any dairy products, including no lactose free milk?.

    How many trays do you have out now? You need at least 3 but in case there are issues between the 2 cats I would put out 4 trays for now.

    Florence might have been "middening" but equally if her poo is softish she could be avoiding the tray for hygiene reasons (not wanting to contaminate the tray). Or it could be there was already pee or poo in the tray from Flossy (hence a reason for more trays, so there is a better chance of a clean one for Florence to use).

    I suggest when her poo goes a bit soft you give her a day of home cooked chicken drumsticks, served off the bone and with plenty of the cooking water (stock). This will rest her bowel and should firm up her poos. (Tesco sells bags of frozen drumsticks in their Value range).

    Let me know how things go, OK. Good luck :)
     
  9. Charliesmum6

    Charliesmum6 PetForums Newbie

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    Hi everyone, so glad I've found this thread!
    We adopted Charlie 3 months ago, he's 8/9yrs old and is a Siberian ex stud cat. We've been told he was a breeding cat till 5yrs then was neutered and given to a family. After another cat and a baby were introduced his behaviour got worse and he was spraying everywhere so his owners put him up for adoption which is where we came in. But we're having the same problem and my partner is ready to give up.
    Charlie is an only cat, indoor only with full range of the house, he has two trays, with litter he likes and they're big enough for him. He knows where the trays are and uses them successfully however we have a lot of accidents, we've had to remove all of the trim along the front door as he's caused it to rot.
    We have a feliway diffuser on constantly, the trays are cleaned as soon as we see he's used them, we use max strength enzyme cleaner to mop up after him and he's rewarded for using the trays and ignored when he doesn't. I have approached a behaviourist but are aware they are expensive. We're running out of ideas now and my partner is only getting about 3hrs sleep per night as she's waking up every time he goes downstairs. He has only peed in a couple of places, against the front door or the wall next to it, in front of the television, the middle of the kitchen, the side of our bed or (very recently) on top of some furniture in the living room and against a wall. He dislikes tin foil so whenever he pees somewhere we have been putting down foil as a last resort to stop him damaging the floor and wall. We have considered getting him a companion but based on his history we don't think he'd like one.
    He is a very vocal needy cat, and is really only quiet when he's asleep, he also spends most of his time with one or both of us. The vet has said it's behavioural not medical but we are running out of ideas. I do not want to give him up but he's driving a wedge between myself and my partner. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
     
  10. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    Hi @Charliesmum6 and welcome :)

    I am sorry to hear about Charlie's problem. Unfortunately it can be the case that some ex-stud cats will continue to spray even after being neutered. It may mean managing the problem rather than being able to eliminate it altogether.

    It will be a shame if you feel you have to give him up. The poor lad's future will be pretty bleak if he is passed from pillar to post. But I do sympathise with you, having had chronic spraying cats myself, and in fact have one at present (a rescued stray who was late neutered).

    Things that have helped with my cat are e.g. to restrict him to certain parts of the home, excluding rooms with soft furnishings. This means either my OH or I will always keep him company, wherever he is in the house, as he is a very sociable cat and hates to be on his own. So it would be unfair to shut him away from us, but at the same time I do not want him soiling carpets and furniture.

    I allow him outdoor access 24/7 and this has definitely helped reduce the spraying. I understand you can't allow Charlie out to roam, but you could consider making your garden cat proof for him (or an area of it) or building him a large outdoor run which he could access from the house through a cat flap whenever he chooses.

    I also give my boy a course of Zylkene every few months and this helps reduce his anxiety levels. Intensity of spraying seems very much linked to anxiety levels I have found in all the cats I have had who sprayed. Zylkene is a supplement, and is not addictive, nor does it make them sleepy. I give it for a month - open the capsule and add the powder to his food.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zylkene-Small-Natural-Calmer-Capsules/dp/B00PP1B8F0/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2BEZSWAAOCSF2&keywords=zylkene+75mg+for+cats&qid=1558688569&s=gateway&sprefix=zylkene,aps,134&sr=8-5

    Note: you may feel the Zylkene is not working at the time, but interestingly after a month of the cat taking it, it does take effect and can be effective for several months after that.

    You mentioned a cat behaviourist and I do think it would be well worth while you consulting one; it could be money well spent. If you have pet insurance for Charlie then you will be covered as long as a vet makes the referral. But you can choose your own behavourist. Here are a few I recommend:

    1/ Vicky Halls - well-known expert, with an excellent record. Has written a number of books on the subject

    http://www.vickyhalls.net/

    2/ CAPBT

    https://capbt.org/findabehaviourist.php

    3/ APBC

    https://www.apbc.org.uk/

    Expect to pay around £100 per session, but you may only need one home visit and the followups could be over the phone or email (less expensive).

    I do hope you are able to persevere with Charlie. I understand it won't be easy and being realistic the probability is you may never 'cure' him entirely of his spraying. It is a habit he has gotten into, and he uses it to comfort himself when anxious. My cat is the same.

    Please let us know how things go. Good luck. x
     
  11. Sacremist

    Sacremist Mum to 2 cats and a dog

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    Good advice from Chillminx.

    I have had spraying issues with cats and definitely do not think introducing another cat is the right thing to do, in all likelihood it will only exacerbate the problem.

    As Chillminx says you may just have to manage the problem. I restricted my boy and girl who did it to certain rooms. Those rooms had tiled floors and painted walls that washed down easily. Although those rooms had furniture that could be peed on, I only gave those two cats access to those rooms when I was present and could keep an eye on them. They had regular access to a cat run.

    With one cat, I never was able to resolve the problem. She passed away eventually. With the boy, Louis, he stopped all by himself when my cat numbers reduced to only two. Louis and my other cat Chino is still with me now but they get along most of the time, so he isn’t stressed anymore and I know he sprays when he’s stressed, which is why I won’t introduce another pet into my home as long as he is alive.
     
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  12. Charliesmum6

    Charliesmum6 PetForums Newbie

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    Hi thanks for the advice. We've ordered some zylkene and have made the decision to begin letting him out, which began yesterday but only lasted 10 mins before he chose to come back in. Restricting him would be difficult as our house is fairly open plan, he does only seem to pee on hard surfaces apart from the two incidents on the side of our bed so small mercies!
    Finding him a new home isn't really an option in my eyes and is an absolute last resort, we knew he was damaged goods when we got him just didn't understand quite how bad it was! We're going to get him on the zylkene as soon as it arrives and he'll have the chance to go out again tomorow.
     
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  13. bluecordelia

    bluecordelia Footy

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    Let us know how you get on
     
  14. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    @Charliesmum6 - when Charlie was kept as a stud cat, he probably lived in an outdoor pen which was all he knew of as 'home', and he could spray it to his heart's content. No-one objected, in fact it was probably behaviour that was almost expected of him as an entire male cat (a sign of his masculinity!)

    Imagine how puzzling it must be to Charlie to find all of a sudden that humans object when he sprays in his home. Through castration he has lost the hormones that made him want to spray, but he hasn't lost the habit of it, and his instinct tells him that spraying his territory helps him feel more in control of his environment enabling him to cope better with life.

    It is a relief to learn that giving him up is a very last option from your POV. But if your partner feels differently it is going to create tensions. If you were both 100% in agreement about Charlie I would say to manage the spraying situation between you, but as there is a difference of opinion I think consulting a pet behaviourist might help a lot. x
     
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  15. Charliesmum6

    Charliesmum6 PetForums Newbie

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    Hi everyone thanks for the great advice. We've had Charlie on zylkene for a few days now and there's been no accidents since that day. We're still holding our breath a little and haven't taken up the foil just yet but if things carry on we might be ok!
     
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  16. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    Excellent news @Charliesmum6 ! :) .

    I recommend continuing the Zylkene for a month and then taking a break from it. He may then be OK but if there are any relapses put him back on the Zylkene for another month.

    Good luck, fingers crossed! ;)
     
  17. Charliesmum6

    Charliesmum6 PetForums Newbie

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    Hi everyone well looks like I spoke too soon he's getting worse again..Between me waking up at 6 and going to work at 7 he peed twice in the same place against a wall and also sprayed one of our sofa throws and the living room floor over the weekend. We're giving him outside access more now and he's marked both the front and back of the house but still insists on selective tray use. He is on zylkene twice a day when we can get him to take it
     
  18. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    I am very sorry to hear this @Charliesmum6. A soiling issue may take time to resolve, particularly when it's been going on a long time like Charlie's has. It's a bit like unpicking a tangled ball of wool when trying to identify all the triggers.

    Are you opening the Zylkene capsule and adding the powder to his food? Most cats don't usually mind the taste of it when mixed in with wet food. Maybe try crumbling a couple of Thrive pure protein freeze-dried treats on top of his wet food when it has the Zylkene in it.

    I definitely think it is worth you consulting a cat behaviourist. They charge around £100 per session for a home visit but you may only need one visit and the rest of the contact could be by telephone or email (so less expensive than a home visit) Of the links I gave you earlier I highly recommend Vicky Halls, who is very good at dealing with feline soiling issues. I haven't met her, but have read all her books, and an acquaintance of mine engaged her for help with her cat's soiling.

    http://www.vickyhalls.net/
     
  19. Charliesmum6

    Charliesmum6 PetForums Newbie

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    Morning, the zylkene gets broken open and we mix the powder in yes, we have the most luck with cat soups for this but sometimes he refuses to eat them if he's been snacking on biscuits all night or if it's too hot. I have approached a behaviourist but she charges a lot and wants a vet referal.
    We let him out last night and he had a stand off with another cat and then disappeared for an hour, so we're hoping that establishing his territory will help, he'll be allowed out every night when the weather is good, don't really want a sodden Siberian!
    We're also changing up the morning rountine so he can't develop a pattern as easily, and hopefully will curb any anxious behaviour. He's my furry shadow in the morning and tends to have accidents after I leave so we wonder if there's a little bit of separation anxiety going on to.
    I am determined to fix this as I understand that the future for him if we do rehome will not be great, he's a beautiful affectionate intelligent cat-we just need him to stop peeing on things!
     
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  20. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    Most cat behaviourists require a vet referral, this is normal. I am sure your vet would be happy to help with this. :)

    You could email Vicky Halls through her website and see what she would charge you for a home visit. Explain to her what the problem is briefly in your email.

    Hopefully the area where you live does not have a high local population of cats? Because if it does then there is a risk of him getting into quite a few fights as he tries to establish his territory. Does he have a microchipped cat flap so he can get back indoors safely every night? Few cats want to stay out all night long if they have a home to go to.

    You could well be right that some of the spraying is due to separation anxiety after you leave. Can you leave a radio on for him playing low, on a classical music station? This can be soothing to anxious cats. Do you get a chance to give him plenty of one to one attention for half an hour before you go out? I found this can be very reassuring to a cat who suffers from separation anxiety. They will usually settle and sleep after that.

    Giving the Zylkene is quite a priority, as it really can help reduce anxiety issues. I understand it's not that he's refusing the Zylkene but that he's not hungry for his brekkie when he's been eating dry food all night. Could he not have the Zylkene added to a supper of wet food every night and then cut back the amount of dry food you leave him overnight? Dry food always spoils the appetite when it is left down all the time for snacking.
     
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