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Infertile Cat

Discussion in 'Cat Breeding' started by Milly22, Jul 7, 2009.


  1. Milly22

    Milly22 PetForums VIP

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    Has anyone ever bought a cat for breeding and it was infertile and if yes what was the outcome ?

    If you sold a cat as a Breeding Female and it was infertile would you offer a refund ?

    Sorry, very bizarre questions but can you imagine being me and having all these thoughts and no-one to share them with ? :eek:ut:
     
  2. spid

    spid PetForums VIP

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    No is the answer - but we thought Minnii might be at one point (she wasn't) - but as she was bought as breeding potential (and only £75 more than pet price) it was a risk we took. If I had paid £300 more than pet price I personally would expect to get a refund on the extra should a cat be infertile. Don't know what other breeders thnk.
     
  3. Dozymoo

    Dozymoo PetForums VIP

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    Hi Mellowma,

    I'm new to all this but I would imagine this is quite a rare occurrence. If it did happen, I'd be disappointed but I wouldn't expect a refund from the breeder. Afterall, you have paid for a pet cat and you still have that. ;) I'm not sure I'd be able to return a cat after falling in love with it, even if it was bought as a breeding queen. Similarly, if she did get pregnant and then unfortunatly had to have an emergency spey, you couldn't expect a refund then could you? :(

    No one can guarantee that a cat will produce kittens and I'd imagine that is something which should be discussed at the point of sale. That's why you have to be sure that you are picking a kitten that you will love and cherish, kittens or no kittens! :):):)

    xx
     
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  4. Milly22

    Milly22 PetForums VIP

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    Yes, very true. I have to think about this. It's fine, I have until Sunday to torture my mind with it all! :thumbsup: :D

    I did ask but the owner said "in all of my 30 years of breeding I have never had an infertile cat" but someone I was chatting with last week told me her cat could not be used for breeding as it had a problem with it's bowels and would require an operation. She may just have not liked me though and was trying to put me off. :arf:
     
  5. Milly22

    Milly22 PetForums VIP

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    No this is Breeding Queen, I will paying for her to breed.
     
  6. Saikou

    Saikou PetForums VIP

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    I have never had an infertile queen, but it does spark the whole debate about charging a premium for active cats when there is no guarantee at 13/14 weeks that they will actually be fertile.

    If you are looking to purchase an active cat then to cover yourself ensure there is a legal contract in place, between you and the breeder, that covers those sorts of eventualities - especially if you are being charged a premium - and you agree between yourselves what will happen ie replacement/refund if the cat never gets pregnant or doesn't manage to have a live litter etc.
     
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  7. Elmstar

    Elmstar PetForums VIP

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    If you buy a cat for breeding and then it's found to be infertile the breeder should supply another breeding quality cat for the usual pet price as a replacement.

    Most active contracts should have this stipulated and I'd certainly not buy a breeding cat without at least this.
     
  8. Milly22

    Milly22 PetForums VIP

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    Yes, I will have to have another chat with her about it.

    She has 10 Ragdolls so I am sure she could some up with another Ragdoll if this one was infertile and I had the proof of this from my Vet.

    Thanks very much for your replies.

    Now I just have decided which one to go for. :confused:
     
  9. ChinaBlue

    ChinaBlue PetForums VIP

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    Personally if I sold a cat for breeding and she turned out to be infertile (confirmed by a vet) I would either refund the difference between pet and breed and/or offer them another kit at a very much reduced price (probably just enough to cover vaccination/registration etc).
     
  10. lauren001

    lauren001 PetForums VIP

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    You should really get a refund if you want, though many breeders will not give refunds but will replace the cat if it was found to have fertility problems. Some small breeders may find it difficult to provide you with a decent replacement breeding quality girl especially if you have paid top dollar, so you may need to have a contingency written into the contract.
    Read the contract that they give you before you accept or pay for any cat, if you want something changed on the contract get it in writing, don't rely on verbal agreements.
    Some breeders are lovely and would give you a refund/replacement in an instant if you run into any problems with their cat whereas others will almost fight you to the death in spite of huge amount of evidence rather than give you any compensation. It is amazing how some "friendly" breeders will turn on you once you start asking for compensation, so sometimes it is difficult to judge their reaction in advance.
    If you have a problem with your queen or multiple stillbirths or dead litters or miscarriages or pyo make sure you have it well documented by your vet with photos/post mortem reports on dead kittens if necessary and be prepared for a fight in case it is necessary. If you are having problems keep the breeder well informed too as they happen eg miscarriages/dead kittens/failed stud visits etc. better to do this than present her with a spayed cat demanding compensation six months down the line.
    Hopefully the problem won't arise, or if it does you have one of those nice breeders to deal with.
     
  11. Saikou

    Saikou PetForums VIP

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    There would be no need for all this, if the cost of the kitten was the same for pet as for breeding.

    From what I can see, the bigger the difference in cost between pet and breed kitten then the bigger the issue when the latter does not perform as expected.
     
  12. Milly22

    Milly22 PetForums VIP

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    Thankfully it's not as big as most of the breeders in Scotland. This is again a lady I randomly called and asked whether she would be prepared to put any of her girls on the active register. She said yes and quite cheap in comparison to others in Scotland.

    She usually doesn't but she liked the sound of me. Thankfully. Most likely because I am polite in my wording! When my brain is in gear, which at times it is not...sorry rambling again! I ramble a lot. People laugh at it/me in Real Life. :blush2:
     
    #12 Milly22, Jul 7, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2009
  13. lauren001

    lauren001 PetForums VIP

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    I agree, but the breeds that do command a premium, do so because it has been this way for a long time and the breeders involved have enjoyed the extra income and I would doubt very much if they would change their practices.

    I may get shot down for this but I personally feel that the whole refund should be given back as the cat is not fit for purpose. If I buy an evening dress and a hole develops just above the hem then I wouldn't be best pleased to be told that I can get it cut short and I could wear it as a cocktail dress, or I can get a reduced rate on another similarly priced dress???
    I bought an evening dress and expect it to fit that purpose and would expect my money back or another evening dress of similar value in its place.
    Just as the breeder who buys a queen, bought a breeding cat, not a pet so she should get her full money back or another kitten of similar value in its place.
    I am not sure where this difference between pet and breeding price or a reduced price kitten comes into it. A breeder has bought a cat for breeding, she no doubt has spent a fortune in vets fees or in stud fees trying to get it pregnant or to have viable litters, she has kept an unproductive animal for probably at least a year and is now behind in her program, she now has an adult "pet" to spay and either keep forever or to rehome for a nominal price. Unfertile queens are not worth the same as a pet kitten, some are just given away to a nice pet home.
    Surely the breeder deserves some real compensation and not just "you can have another one" at a reduced rate????
    I think the least she deserves is a full refund or a replacement. A breeder who is selling for breeding I feel has a responsibility for the quality of the kittens she sells for that purpose and with that comes the responsibility to compensate fully should "her goods" not come up to standard, just the same as any other "trader".

    JMO
     
  14. Dozymoo

    Dozymoo PetForums VIP

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    Actually, when you put it like that it does make sense. :eek: I guess the most important thing is to ensure that all possibilities are covered in your contract.

    xx
     
  15. Saikou

    Saikou PetForums VIP

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    No breed really commands a premium, its just that some breeders working with that breed decide to charge one, for whatever reason, and others jump on the band wagon. If breeders are getting a premium for breed cats then why would they change, but then if they want to charge 3+x their pet prices then they should be prepared for the consequences if the kitten does prove not to be fertile! No pain no gain. They can not cash in at one end without paying out at the other if things do not pan out as expected. At the very least the purchaser should expect a refund of the difference charged, as they still have a "pet" cat at the end of the day. Charging more for a breed/show cat also runs into the realms of profitering, the breeder is not merely recouping the cost of raising that kitten, as a breed kitten costs no more to raise that his/her pet sibling. I can understand if the line has been imported and additional costs have been incurred by the breeder. Recouping some of those costs from purchasers who would be benefitting from those imported lines but not in any other instance.

    Unless you have a test for fertility, how can any breeder guarantee the breeding quality of the kitten. Kitten sales may be covered under the sale of goods act, but fertility, just as show potential or even long term health is subjective. If you follow that basis, then anyone who has a cat die early of an illness has a right to a refund or a replacement from the breeder, as the kitten was not fit for purpose, ie to live an average life expectancy for the breed and die of old age.


    All my kittens go for the same price no matter what. If I sold for breeding then it would be on the purchasers understanding that there are no guarantees. Same for a show kitten, as the same principle applies there.
     
  16. kozykatz

    kozykatz PetForums VIP

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    Yes - my LaPerm girl. She was mated 3 times to 2 different (proven) studs and failed to get pregnant. I have never before had a girl who did not get pregnant after a maximum of 2 matings.

    My LP girl has now been spayed - the breeder has offered me another girl in future should I want one, at pet price (although I did not sign any contract). I doubt I shall take this up as I've subsequently heard that there are quite a few fertility problems in the breed.
     
  17. Taylorbaby

    Taylorbaby PetForums VIP

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    Yes same here, you have jills contracts dont you!! :D

    I was just going to quote hers as I really like how she has done it.

    (cant rem it fully) but something like that if a cat is sold for breeding and hasnt called for too long and cant get pregnant & they can get it pregnant by their studs that they will replace her with another cat of suitable breeding quality??

    something like that!! I thought that was pretty good!

    that is very reasonable!! :)


    Just to add that my breeding girls who kits died inside her, I wasnt expecting anything but she offered me a replacement kitten & that is my little Tia :D
    we are still good friends :)
     
  18. Elmstar

    Elmstar PetForums VIP

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    But the presumption is that you wouldn't want to keep the damaged dress whereas a cat is different surely? Most of the breeding cats we have are now part of our family and I wouldn't contemplate just giving them back if they were infertile! The idea of giving you a new breeding cat at the pet price is that the infertile one would remain a pet so you have two cats. I personally wouldn't lose any sleep over not giving a refund to someone who just wanted to dump their cat after two years because it was infertile.

    I would imagine that, like us, most new breeders take their lead from the established breeders they've had dealings with. We've paid a premium for our breeding cats so we wouldn't now sell at pet price should our cats produce a breeding quality cat.

    Also wouldn't doing this lead to more unwanted cats? Surely then everyone who bought a cat would want it to be on the active list?
     
  19. Saikou

    Saikou PetForums VIP

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    I personally think anyone that buys a breeding cat and expects some kind of guarantee, shouldn't be breeding at all because they are going to be sorely disappointed. Mother Nature always has the upper hand. As long as the kitten you buy is healthy and well socialised (inc all the necessary paperwork, vacc etc) then you really can not expect anymore.

    If you choose to offer some kind of guarantee, then how far does that go, 1 healthy litter, 2 how many.

    I personally disagree with charging a premium for breed/show cats as I think it is pure profitering and if breeders want to do that then they are not hobby breeders, but thats just my opinion. At the end of the day the purchaser choose to pay a premium, there are plenty of quality breeders with excellent pedigrees and healthy lines who do not charge more, so look for one of those. From my experience, top dollar does not always equal top quality - far from it.
     
  20. Biawhiska

    Biawhiska PetForums VIP

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    When I bought my Bi Colour on the active with the intention of Breeding her, her breeder said "Remember there is no gaurantee she will be able to breed" I said Yup I know. You can't buy a cat and expect to get a free one if the one you bought couldn't breed. Don't work like that, or at least I don't think it does. If your cat can't breed then so what? not it's fault, should still be loved and cared for all the same.
     
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