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IN-breeding, line-breeding... po-TAY-to, po-TAH-to... C-O-I

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by leashedForLife, Nov 14, 2010.


  1. leashedForLife

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  2. leashedForLife

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    Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog
     
  3. dimkaz

    dimkaz PetForums VIP

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    Hi Terry,

    it would be nice if breeders went somehow back starting from biology 101 and learn from university textbooks before playing with breeding actual, four legged dogs...

    of course this is not going to happen...as it is well contrary to the ethos of the breed clubs...

    it's so simple that is shocckking!
    best
    D
     
    #4 dimkaz, Nov 14, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
    leashedForLife likes this.
  4. luvmydogs

    luvmydogs PetForums VIP

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    As usual I can't get into any of the links. :(

    Just wondering - does anyone actually say po-TAH-to? :lol:
     
  5. comfortcreature

    comfortcreature PetForums VIP

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    Luvmydogs, the url for "Inbred Mistakes 1" (if you want to copy and past it into your task bar) is Inbred Mistakes I

    The url for "Inbreeding and using COI to analyze potential pairings (yet more on Pedigree Dogs Exposed) « Ruffly Speaking: Railing against idiocy since 2004" is Inbreeding and using COI to analyze potential pairings (yet more on Pedigree Dogs Exposed) « Ruffly Speaking: Railing against idiocy since 2004

    They are both excellent blog articles, and well worh the read.

    The comments sections have challenging and thought provoking questions and side conversations as well.

    Well .. . that didn't work! Try these and take the dashes off the ends.

    -------http://www.astraean.com/borderwars/2010/11/inbred-mistakes-i.html-------

    -------http://rufflyspeaking.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/inbreeding-and-using-coi-to-analyze-potential-pairings-yet-more-on-pedigree-dogs-exposed/------

    CC
     
    #6 comfortcreature, Nov 14, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
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  6. luvmydogs

    luvmydogs PetForums VIP

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    Thanks CC! :thumbup:
     
  7. comfortcreature

    comfortcreature PetForums VIP

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    You're welcome. I have read the second article many times before. The first one, at Chris' blog, I'm still just getting through . . . having a busy day here and getting glares from the OH when I'm on the 'puter (we are painting) so I might not even today.

    CC
     
  8. leashedForLife

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  9. leashedForLife

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    #10 leashedForLife, Nov 19, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  10. Bijou

    Bijou PetForums VIP

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    interesting - I had a peek at his 'planned litters' page - no pedigrees to check out the COI's of his breeding and NO health tests :confused1:

    so ........why would you assume that this is a responsible 'alternative' method of breeding ?

    a case of the pot calling the kettle black !
     
  11. Nightmare

    Nightmare PetForums Junior

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    Dear Bijou, in your frenzy to condemn me, perhaps your reading comprehension is poor? There are COIs there. And a pedigree link for my Azawakh litter. (For the crosses, I am happy to provide that information privately, as crossing breeds can be contentious. I get hate mail.) Which health tests I do is also covered. Maybe you missed them? There's also an e-mail address, for you to ask questions, instead of attacking me behind my back.

    Cheers,
    Jess
     
  12. leashedForLife

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    ------------http://tinyurl.com/2b42tyc--------------- for *luv;

    PLoS ONE: DLA Class II Alleles Are Associated with Risk for Canine Symmetrical Lupoid Onychodystropy (SLO)
    for the rest of us, :eek:

    EXCERPT,
     
  13. leashedForLife

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    -----------http://tinyurl.com/qax8h------------

    OR
    Contagious cancer in dogs confirmed; origins traced to wolves centuries ago

    the cloned-tumor cells moved from wolves to dogs, and have been spreading thru the dom-dog popn
    for approx 200-years; generally, after a period of rapid uncontested growth, the dog's immune-system
    recognizes the tumor and attacks it, then the tumor is broken-down and resorbed, and does not recur.
     
  14. luvmydogs

    luvmydogs PetForums VIP

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    Thanks Terry. But can you believe this bloody place is blocking the tiny URL's now?? :mad: I'm managing to see most by putting titles into google though.

    Can someone explain to me in idiots terms what 'assortative mating' is please? :eek:
     
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  15. Bijou

    Bijou PetForums VIP

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    Ok I've had a look at your 'pedigree ' - are you seriously suggesting a COi of 7.86 % over 10 generations?.... how do you know when almost all the pedigree is marked as 'foundation' and NOT recorded ?- in fact you have unrecorded dogs appearing as close up as the 4th generation -

    now there's a neat trick folks - an instant way of lowering those cOi's - simply dont put in the names of ANY dogs in your pedigrees that way they'll be shown as having 0 % of inbreeding !!

    honestly... words fail me :confused1:


    P.s - your link was posted on an open forum - I was simply replying to that - I don't think this can be construed as -'attacking me behind my back'
     
    #16 Bijou, Nov 21, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2010
  16. Bijou

    Bijou PetForums VIP

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    assortative mating is the breeding of dogs that look similar in type i.e mating my Belgian Shepherds to Dutch Shepherds or your English Shepherds to Border Collies - supporters of this say it will widen gene pools and that this is how dogs were bred in the past - both statements are true but it would mean the end of most individual breeds ( i.e Malamutes/ Sibes/ Eskimo Dogs/Samoyeds could all be classed as 'assortative types' and mated together thus reducing 4 separate breeds into one sled dog 'type' )
     
  17. luvmydogs

    luvmydogs PetForums VIP

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    Ah ok thanks Bijou. ES breeders have tried very hard to keep the breeding loose but there's no way they'd breed to a BC, the ES was bred as an all rounder and the BC a specialist. It would be like going backwards.
     
  18. leashedForLife

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    the earliest litter i see planned is for Fall 2012 - this being Nov 2010, that's a good ways off - approx 2-years;
    there is also this note: QUOTE, Pending eye /heart / tgaa checks if U want to know about screens.
    plus this warranty:
    i am not going to address the known-lineage dogs, of USA or Euro ancestry with known pedigrees -
    i am only going to ask a general info question about COO imports.

    dogs imported from a country of origin often have 3 to 5 gens of pedigree at best, but the likelihood
    of their having a large amount of genetic relationship with US or Euro lines is pretty remote.
    i think U would grant that a desert-bred dog is not likely to have near-relatives in the show-ring?
    - terry
     
  19. Bijou

    Bijou PetForums VIP

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    Take a look at the pedigree of his Azawakh litter - the same dam 'Jana' is use THREE times in the fourth generation and a litter brother and sister are used in the third as well as a dog called 'Agarouf' appearing in both the fourth and third generations - I hav'nt worked out the COI of this but I'm telling you this pedigree even with all it's 'missing' dogs is WAY over 7.86 % - in fact it's one of the most INBRED pedigrees I've seen in along time !!

    The Azawakh Database
     
    #20 Bijou, Nov 21, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2010
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