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If it gets in mans way - kill it!!!

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by Malmum, Oct 23, 2012.


  1. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    That seems to be the thing to do these days doesn't it?

    Was driving back from Flynns walk today listening to radio 4 :eek: and a programme was on talking about the Red Buzzard and Peregrine Falcon taking too much of the Grouse in the Northern parts of England. Taking too much of THEIR food from hunters who want to shoot them FOR SPORT! What to do, possibly a limited cull! :eek: :(
    In the North of England we apparently have 100 times more Grouse than in other parts of Europe - but that still isn't enough for the hunters! :mad:

    It wasn't too many years ago that the Peregrine Falcon was re introduced in Scotland as they were on the verge of extinction and the nests protected as a few pairs had bred. Loads of news articles showing how pleased everyone was with the babies fledging. Pretty short lived that celebration eh?

    Badgers too were protected - at least the barbaric intended cull has been postponed until next year, lets hope it doesn't go ahead as scientists have a good argument against it. At least this wasn't planned because a f***ing huntsman wouldn't have the pleasure of a shoot and was cattle related re TB. Still ridiculous anyway.

    The wolf is being hunted to near extinction for the sake of the huntsman's gun because it too is eating too much 'game' - 'game' which is it's natural right to eat!

    Why oh why do people think they have a right to hunt? I could understand it if it was the only way to find food but for us humans it isn't - for the predators however it is.

    With so many rabbits out there to shoot (I couldn't) why pick on endangered species? Rabbits were never indigenous to the UK, some tw*t decided it would be a good idea to bring them over and introduce them (another great idea by man) and they are a total pest in many respects, spread like wildfire by prolific breeding - so why not shoot them?

    What kind of people have the need to go and shoot creatures to take home to eat or as trophies? Isn't the local supermarket well enough stocked?

    Makes me sick how selfish man has become, ruining this planet for everything bar him. To my three kids who say they don't want children in this one sided world I say thank you, I too don't want grand children to co inhabit with the selfishness of man kind. The planet will be shot itself anyway!

    What a sh*t world we live in and it won't get any better because so many people don't see any wrong in killing creatures for pleasure!

    Rant over but find it all so very sad! :(
     
  2. Lexiedhb

    Lexiedhb Team Ginger!

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    Dont have a problem AT ALL with people wanting to go out shoot something and eat it (as long as they are a decent shot). If we all did that hundreds of farm animals would be surplus to requirements, and the over all loss of life would be far less, of course the creation of life would be far less to!
    I seriously think education is key and would really love to see "where your food comes from" on school syllabus - culminating in an abattoir visit, so the next generations know how important it is to not buy sub standard welfare meat.

    Shooting things for trophies, or because they are rare is IMO daft, and will ruin the vast array of species left in the world to wonder at for future generations.
     
  3. cazbah

    cazbah PetForums Member

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    You shared my thoughts totally, what makes us so special eh that we can cause such destruction?
     
  4. rona

    rona Still missing my boys

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    #4 rona, Oct 23, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  5. rona

    rona Still missing my boys

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  6. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    There's no such thing as a red buzzard, and I think you'll find it was the conservationists doing a u-turn, actually admitting for the first time that raptors can and do have an impact on managed grouse moors. As do peregrines. What enlightened gamekeepers are doing is trying to manage this and find new ways of providing alternative prey, but their efforts are unfortunately not highlighted. Managed grouse moors provide a wide spectrum of habitat for a lot of species, and yes, species such as foxes are controlled. The RSPB famously bought a grouse moor and left it to it's own devices, a few years later there was nothing let, the predators had eaten everything and moved on.
     
  7. rona

    rona Still missing my boys

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    I believe it's still a wasteland :(
     
  8. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    And of course the incident of hen harriers being predated on by eagle owls on an RSPB reserve wasn't exactly publicised widely, I mean, a non-native species predating on an endangered raptor, that was not only known about, but tolerated by the charity set up to protect our British birds?
     
  9. lennythecloud

    lennythecloud PetForums Senior

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    TBH the other raptors are probably just filling the niche left by hen harriers - a species less than 4 breeding pairs away from extinction in England and that's almost certainly as a result of persecution by gamekeepers.

    Eagle owls didn't kill off the hundreds of breeding pairs that the ecologists say the current English habitat is able to support and eagle owls didn't cause the hen harrier extinction in the 19th century.
     
    #9 lennythecloud, Oct 23, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  10. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    And please tell me where I said that they did?
     
  11. springerpete

    springerpete PetForums VIP

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    I dont really want to get involved in this one for obvious reasons but I do wonder if people believe that the chickens, beef, pork and lamb they buy from the supermarkets commit suicide for their benefit.??? ' Fraid not, they get slaughtered in vast numbers. The real difference between myself and some of my contempories is that I'm prepare rto hunt my own game for the table as opposed to leaving it to the slaughterman to do it for me.
     
  12. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    I think that the issue that some have with this is the impact on our environment Pete. I see lots of shoots organised in such a way as to encourage wildlife, yes they control some predators, but there is a huge array of wildlife because they provide cover for the game birds. The BASC representative was very articulate on the programme mentioned, no-one has ever denied that raptors are killed by those within the shooting *industry*, but it's not only those within the shooting industry that are a problem, and nobody wants to be associated with that sort of practice these days, because there are much better ways of dealing with raptor numbers predating on chicks and adult birds. I can't remmber when it's being aired but there is a programme set in Scotland about moor management, where I believe the gamekeeper provides carrion for raptors, will try and find out more.

    One thing that does worry me is the lack of balls to provide any licences to shoot sparrowhawks, which are a damn nuisance in current numbers, predating heavily on garden birds.
     
  13. lennythecloud

    lennythecloud PetForums Senior

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    I didn't say that you did, I was just pointing it out in case anybody was led to believe that eagle owls are a significant factor in hen harrier decline.

    By

    Do you mean Langholm moor? If so that's not exactly true. The RSPB did not just go out and buy Langholm moor and let it be - they are a partner in the project along with Natural England, Scottish Natural Heritage, the Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust, and Buccleuch Estates (a shooting estate group! -they own the moor).

    The project is designed to work out the best way to balance raptor conservation with running a viable commercial grouse moor (an important cause seeing one of our native raptors is at immediate risk of extinction England). It was demonstrated that predation kills a large amount of grouse but that still leaves the main problem of balance unsolved and that's why the Langholm project is ongoing. At the moment it's a choice between having a grouse moor with no viable population of predators or having a viable population of predators with no grouse moor - a middle ground needs to be found PDQ.


    The Langholm Moor Demonstration Project: Project Detail
     
  14. lennythecloud

    lennythecloud PetForums Senior

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    Do you have any evidence for this?

    If there was a decline in garden bird species then a predator that they've co-evolved with for thousands of years is not the first place i'd be looking. Left to their own devices predator-prey 'arms races' always tend to balance out unless another factor like disease or habitat loss comes along.
     
  15. SLB

    SLB PetForums VIP

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    Malmum, a lot of shooting is to do with management, not sport. Yes there are people that enjoy it - but thats them. I'll take for example, Deer. Certain species of deer breed all year round. Which means a lot of babies. With no natural predator - they need their numbers managing efficiently. A lot of folk that realise this don't like hunting and shooting so have managed shoots in which people that do like hunting and shooting can help them manage them.

    As with all shoots, yes there is a certain aspect of blood sport involved but the overall picture is management. We as humans disrupted the balance of nature in a lot of ways, we always have and always will and so we have to balance it out ourselves. Yes it's killing an animal, but on managed shoots the animal is always taken away and in most cases for food for us.
     
  16. Paula07

    Paula07 PetForums VIP

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    I completely agree. I can understand(kind of) killing for food but, for fun? Whats fun about killing a living creature? Absolutely nothing in my eyes. I dont eat meat and i never will. I dont expect others not to but i personally dont want to support the killing of defenceless animals.
     
  17. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    So the 200 illegal shootings and 100 poisonings last year is acceptable to some. Gamekeepers being the suspects because who else would bother/care? Like the programme said, if hen harriers are fed they don't take any where near as many grouse chicks. Or catch the excess hen harriers to release elsewhere. Moving their clutches/eggs and take them abroad.
    NOT illegally shooting or poisoning them. What gives hunters/gamekeepers the right to beak the law? - they do it with fox hunting too. Blatant law breakers!


    No difference to a shoplifter who walks into a store and steals something - to my mind the former is worse! The shoplifter is openly breaking the law, the gamekeeper is sneakily breaking it with less chance of actually being caught but is no better, no less a criminal.

    Manage the land NOT the Raptors, is surely the best way to go but as usual excuses for the illegal killing of species to justify a hunt will always be voiced.

    There is NO justification for breaking a law - any law!

    BBC - Podcasts - Best of Natural History Radio

    So the rest of the World look at this and think we are a bit crazy, British tradition/madness - I couldn't agree more with them!

    SLB - Why are there no natural predators of deer? That's right - we killed them too!
     
    #17 Malmum, Oct 23, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  18. Bijou

    Bijou PetForums VIP

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    I have no problem with the management of species like deer etc what I DO have a huge problem with is turning their or any other animal's death into a jolly day out -

    No Pete - the real difference is that the chicken reared and killed to provide food for my table is not also expected to provide entertainment in it's death - tell me why you cannot simply buy the Pheasants intensively reared in the fields surrounding my house if it's simply the case that they are providing food ? - why must they be released to provide target practice for those that require the death of an animal as central to the enjoyment of their hobby - they are no more wild birds than my own Orpington Buffs !
     
    #18 Bijou, Oct 24, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  19. SLB

    SLB PetForums VIP

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    I don't disagree with that. I think it was wrong that the wolf was killed till there was none left in this country. Butl it happened many many years ago, for reasons that were more barbaric than the reasons for killing animals are. The last wolf was killed in 1860 I believe.

    But that is completely a different story.

    I think you need to understand what those of us who are part of the shooting world (which I am not, I just understand it) are saying. I can't really comment on it as I know not enough about BOP etc. I was just trying to let you see it from another side.
     
  20. alan g a

    alan g a Hello ev'ry body peeps. Stavross 'ere init.

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    As I have said before , this world does not belong to Man. We should do all we can to preserve it, not destroy it.
    Dodo
    wooly mammoth
    passenger pidgeon
    moa
    great auk.
    these are just a few of the species that are now extinct becasue of Mans interference. There many more on the endangered list. When will will we learn?
     
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