They aren't supposed to, no.

The only way this could have got into the Chi gene pool is by cross-breeding at some point.

There are imports coming in with (allegedly) kosher papers and registration, meaning they can be registered with the KC, but from the colours they can't be as pure-bred as our KC demands.

The KC has decided not to accept registration of merle Chis. Not just from the dubious origin but because they are fully aware of the issues that can arise from merle to merle matings - accidental or otherwise.

It's a difficult one. I know the GCCF's policy on out-breeding cats very well, and in fact I owned one that had a moggy about 5 generations back, bred from a Champion mother. In some ways it could be seen to be opening up the gene pool but by the time it has gone into the required generations to be re-accepted you could argue the value has been lost. Or in that time, a rogue gene could have entered the gene pool which will affect future generations...

 

They aren't supposed to, no.

The only way this could have got into the Chi gene pool is by cross-breeding at some point.

There are imports coming in with (allegedly) kosher papers and registration, meaning they can be registered with the KC, but from the colours they can't be as pure-bred as our KC demands.

The KC has decided not to accept registration of merle Chis. Not just from the dubious origin but because they are fully aware of the issues that can arise from merle to merle matings - accidental or otherwise.

It's a difficult one. I know the GCCF's policy on out-breeding cats very well, and in fact I owned one that had a moggy about 5 generations back, bred from a Champion mother. In some ways it could be seen to be opening up the gene pool but by the time it has gone into the required generations to be re-accepted you could argue the value has been lost. Or in that time, a rogue gene could have entered the gene pool which will affect future generations...

Fully get you and do understand the outcrossing.Im also aware off them merle to merle matings.

Thanx for explaining,maybe not everyone will agree due to the ethics behind it due I do think they are cute.

 

Similar problems with other dog breeds, imports of non standard colours, and fetching huge prices, some are kc reg allegedly, others aren't.... bybs are asking and getting money for these new rare colours, without registration, suddenly having a traceable ancestry (with checkable health tests) doesn't matter :confused1:

 

Similar problems with other dog breeds, imports of non standard colours, and fetching huge prices, some are kc reg allegedly, others aren't.... bybs are asking and getting money for these new rare colours, without registration, suddenly having a traceable ancestry (with checkable health tests) doesn't matter :confused1:

Interesting.

What annoys me mostly with the 'rare' colours is its not actually an amazing rare colour its simply genetics and someone knowing what they were doing to produce that colour,pretty simple really.

 

But with the dog breeds, certain colours have been accepted within the breed for a very long time, and the new colours could only have come about by cross breeding. I agree it's just basic genetics but dogs are defined by breed not colour, except for a few. This is one reason why dog colour genetics is not yet defined, on the other hand, their colour genes are being analysed at a molecular level and new discoveries are occurring at an interesting rate (to me anyway, being a colour genetics geek!).

 

But with the dog breeds, certain colours have been accepted within the breed for a very long time, and the new colours could only have come about by cross breeding. I agree it's just basic genetics but dogs are defined by breed not colour, except for a few. This is one reason why dog colour genetics is not yet defined, on the other hand, their colour genes are being analysed at a molecular level and new discoveries are occurring at an interesting rate (to me anyway, being a colour genetics geek!).

:lol: no it is indeed very interestin I agree and all credit to you you know your stuff.

 

I'd heard about them but recently met my first. He was a rescue but was marked just as a chihuahua.

I find him stunning but then I have a soft spot for merles :thumbsup:

 

Neither the dog in the advert or that last photo look like a full chihuahua to me, not from the ones I've seen at shows or at ring craft. I'm not keen on merle I'm afraid, I don't like the appearance of the markings, and I'm not a fan of breeding for anything that so obviously causes health problems; similarly pure white boxers, or blues where there's an associated skin problem, I just don't see the point in breeding towards health problems for the sake of appearance, it's the dogs that suffer

 

Neither the dog in the advert or that last photo look like a full chihuahua to me, not from the ones I've seen at shows or at ring craft. I'm not keen on merle I'm afraid, I don't like the appearance of the markings, and I'm not a fan of breeding for anything that so obviously causes health problems; similarly pure white boxers, or blues where there's an associated skin problem, I just don't see the point in breeding towards health problems for the sake of appearance, it's the dogs that suffer

Do you mean white boxers shouldn't be bred from (which I agree with), or they shouldn't be bred at all?

 

Do you mean white boxers shouldn't be bred from (which I agree with), or they shouldn't be bred at all?

They shouldn't be bred for *if* there's an associated health problem and risk they could produce affected progeny without any actual knowledge whether they definitely would/wouldn't - hope that makes sense

 

They shouldn't be bred for *if* there's an associated health problem and risk they could produce affected progeny without any actual knowledge whether they definitely would/wouldn't - hope that makes sense

Yes agree with that for any boxer, although skin issues etc are no more higher in the whites than the coloureds, common misconception with a lot of people. The only risk is deafness but again hard to know which pups if any will be affected, unless of course whites are being bred, then you are playing with fire.

 

Merle to merle chis can cause deafness, blindness. People are so unethical it kills me. There was a merle chi for stud on a Facebook group, no mention of health issues if he covered a merle dam: I had to mention it! They also can't be KC registered as already mentioned.

 

Yes agree with that for any boxer, although skin issues etc are no more higher in the whites than the coloureds, common misconception with a lot of people. The only risk is deafness but again hard to know which pups if any will be affected, unless of course whites are being bred, then you are playing with fire.

The skin issue thing was more to do with blue coats, which is why I stuck a comma in there, but it has been associated with alopecia and similar problems with dogs that have a blue coat.

 

The skin issue thing was more to do with blue coats, which is why I stuck a comma in there, but it has been associated with alopecia and similar problems with dogs that have a blue coat.

Yes. sorry wasn't trying to get at you, I just hear it so much from people that I just jump in there with it now

 

Jakes litter brother was mated to a merle bitch & this was the outcome. I think it's cute but don't agree with it


A lot of people with the breed seem to be obsessed with colour I am often asked to use Jake as stud due to his colour

 

I'd heard about them but recently met my first. He was a rescue but was marked just as a chihuahua.

I find him stunning but then I have a soft spot for merles :thumbsup:

Ah bless how could anyone give him up :001_wub:.

SL I fully respect your beliefs and I do get it.Also never knew that bout the blue boxers,whys is that?

Finally no one is expected to share my view here and its not meant to cause any big long arguments just want to make that clear as I knowhow these topics can go.

The way I feel about the merles is if bred ethically you wont get issues therefor I don't see a problem and its such a stunning pattern that I wouldn't like to see it gone,there will be the byb's who do it wrong but you get that with anything.

For example in cats you have blood group incompatabilitys (sp) if you put group B queen to group A stud all kittens will die,what im saying is byb's don't care or understand these things.

 

But with the dog breeds, certain colours have been accepted within the breed for a very long time, and the new colours could only have come about by cross breeding. I agree it's just basic genetics but dogs are defined by breed not colour, except for a few. This is one reason why dog colour genetics is not yet defined, on the other hand, their colour genes are being analysed at a molecular level and new discoveries are occurring at an interesting rate (to me anyway, being a colour genetics geek!).

Not necessarily. Genes mutate all the time. As the merle gene we know in many breeds is 'dominant', there's a chance the same mutation can happen again spontaneously. If a new colour were required 2 recessive genes, I'd think that more suspicious (though there are those long-coated whippets that occasionally occur in the USA, and are now being bred together).

 

Ah bless how could anyone give him up :001_wub:.

SL I fully respect your beliefs and I do get it.Also never knew that bout the blue boxers,whys is that?

Finally no one is expected to share my view here and its not meant to cause any big long arguments just want to make that clear as I knowhow these topics can go.

The way I feel about the merles is if bred ethically you wont get issues therefor I don't see a problem and its such a stunning pattern that I wouldn't like to see it gone,there will be the byb's who do it wrong but you get that with anything.

For example in cats you have blood group incompatabilitys (sp) if you put group B queen to group A stud all kittens will die,what im saying is byb's don't care or understand these things.

It wasn't blue boxers, more blue coat colour, dobermans and chihuahua's are known to suffer problems and I think staffies have a higher incidence of problems as well when they have a blue coat.

Breeding for a merle coat is (to me) like breeding for a carrier status. Whilst it's acceptable to have a carrier status with the aim to breed clear, I personally don't think it's ethical to breed specifically for something that could cause such health issues. Particularly as not all merle's are obvious. I don't think it's ever ethical to breed solely for colour when there are much more important issues to consider before colour alone.

 

Any colour but merle is acceptable in the KC standard. However, any colour including merle is acceptable by the US standard for the Chihuahua.

 

It wasn't blue boxers, more blue coat colour, dobermans and chihuahua's are known to suffer problems and I think staffies have a higher incidence of problems as well when they have a blue coat.

Breeding for a merle coat is (to me) like breeding for a carrier status. Whilst it's acceptable to have a carrier status with the aim to breed clear, I personally don't think it's ethical to breed specifically for something that could cause such health issues. Particularly as not all merle's are obvious. I don't think it's ever ethical to breed solely for colour when there are much more important issues to consider before colour alone.

In collies aren't sable/merle matings problematic too due to sable masking the merle gene? I'm sure I read that somewhere

 

In collies aren't sable/merle matings problematic too due to sable masking the merle gene? I'm sure I read that somewhere

I believe that's the case, although I think you can test for the merle gene so that you know you've got. I just don't see the point, if the name of the markings was linked to the defects it caused it would sound a lot less desirable than just being named as a marking. For me, the fact that genetic defects are linked to a marking would make it seem simple that this is something that should be bred away from.

 

I believe that's the case, although I think you can test for the merle gene so that you know you've got. I just don't see the point, if the name of the markings was linked to the defects it caused it would sound a lot less desirable than just being named as a marking. For me, the fact that genetic defects are linked to a marking would make it seem simple that this is something that should be bred away from.

Have to say, if a merle dog of any breed turned up in rescue I wouldn't say no I think it looks really pretty, but I'd not go out specifically looking for someone who bred for it

 

Have to say, if a merle dog of any breed turned up in rescue I wouldn't say no I think it looks really pretty, but I'd not go out specifically looking for someone who bred for it

It just doesn't appeal to me, I don't like the blue coat colour you get with some breeds either

 

Strange website, full of spelling mistakes. They also seem very defensive of certain topics.

What's the difference between 'small hobby breeders' and 'back yard breeders' ?

Tiny Chihuahua House

 

Strange website, full of spelling mistakes. They also seem very defensive of certain topics.

What's the difference between 'small hobby breeders' and 'back yard breeders' ?

Tiny Chihuahua House

The latter will breed with the primary aim of making as much money as possible, and are obviously willing to risk breeding for a colour/marking that can cause serious health problems. To me, a small hobby breeder could describe someone who uses health tests, researches about their breed, and tries to produce progeny that are an improvement.

As to the website