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How would you deal?

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by Acidic Angel, Jul 10, 2019.


  1. Acidic Angel

    Acidic Angel Your ego does not surpass your pets wellbeing

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    I'm putting this in training because it relates to a training issue I have...

    We(me, Hazel and my fiance) go to my fiance's nans house for Sunday dinner every Sunday, and while there Hazel gets chance to run around the garden, etc...
    Well, my fiance's nan has a lovely garden, and Hazel is allowed to run around on the grass, but is not allowed on the flowerbed... Of course, Hazel doesn't always listen, and often seems to develop cloth ears and will ignore everything and go on the flowerbeds.
    There's my way of dealing with this- "Off!" - Hazel comes off the flowerbed - Hazel gets a reward and we play for a bit to distract her from going straight back on.
    And then there's my fiances nans way of dealing with this- "Off!" - Hazel comes off the flowerbed - His nan calls her over - Hazel goes - And then his nan tells her off for going on the flowerbed :(

    I know full well, all this is going to do is make Hazel wary of coming when called- Making her already sketchy recall even worse! But I don't know how to deal with this without ruffling feathers.
    My fiance won't overrule his nan, because she has "more experience" than him and has owned springers longer(her last one being a neurotic mess that got one 30 minute walk in the morning, and then was left to her own devices all day).. I can't say anything because while me and her get along, she has this sort of "my way or the highway" type of thinking. She also refuses to say "Off" if Hazel jumps up at the counter, instead saying "Down"- Which to Hazel means "lay down"! "Off" is what we use for getting off counters/people/sofas/etc... It almost feels like she does it on purpose to me.

    So far, her recall seems to be slowly improving, but this method of telling her off has only recently begun, so I fear if I can't get a handle on it soon, it's going to undo all her recall training...
     
  2. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel PetForums VIP

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    Stake her on a long line with enough reach for the grass but not the flowerbeds. You cant argue with nan - she is old and these are her flowerbeds after all;)
     
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  3. ShibaPup

    ShibaPup PetForums VIP

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    If you can't explain and compromise - I get that, I'm currently living with someone who's rather "old school" but Lily is my dog and my responsibility.
    For example they taught her to put her paws up on the sides :rolleyes: - if they don't want her to they'll say "Down" and Lily doesn't always listen because the word I use is "Floor" anyway after she's got down to either word, I'll jump in "Good girl Lily" and tell them "she did what you asked, tell her well done for listening :D" It was an improvement from them using her collar to pull her front paws off the side - when the person didn't listen to me about that, I simply removed her collar.

    Dogs are clever and adaptable - Lily doesn't listen to the other persons "down" as in lay down as I would use it, it doesn't really bother our training since I'm normally around to step in. Thankfully Lily is bomb proof - the odd occasion they've shouted and I've pulled that person up on it explaining why I don't do that, Lily couldn't care less.

    Your other options are keeping Hazel on a long line - you can keep her out of the flowerbeds to prevent her being told off or not taking her.
     
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  4. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    This.
    Hazel won't be confused by your cues, as you're being consistent. She'll just learn to ignore your OH's Nan :)

    I wouldn't worry too much about the cues, however I would work to prevent Hazel being in a situation where someone else might end up having to reprimand her. To this end leash, long line, staked in the yard... Management tools basically :)
     
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  5. Acidic Angel

    Acidic Angel Your ego does not surpass your pets wellbeing

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    A staked out long line would solve everything(mostly, the garden is laid out in an odd way so it would have to be short to stop her reaching the flowerbeds while having access to the grass), but his nan won't do that because it's "unfair"...
    I have tried to explain that she doesn't understand she's being told off for going on the flowers, she just thinks she's being told off for coming over instead, but his nan insists that "she understands exactly what I mean"... :rolleyes:
    When she's stood there bearing down on Hazel saying things like "Not on the garden!" or "I told you to stay off the garden!", on the verge of shouting at her(because this is how she "trained" her previous springer), Hazel dips her head low, avoids eye contact(because his nan insists on staring her dead in the eye at the same time), shows signs she's uncomfortable basically.
    If I could avoid taking her, I would. But again my fiance won't overrule his nan and insists on taking her every Sunday.

    As for the down issue, Hazel will listen to it but she doesn't connect it with having her feet on/off the counter. Instead when his nan says "Down", Hazel goes "Oh, I know that one!" and lays down, which is fair enough because that's fine, she did what she was told, but then she jumps back up and the process repeats. Whereas if I say "Off", she gets her paws down, gets praise and then goes "OK, so that's bad." and for a while she'll remember that she's not allowed up.

    Edit: Since it's hard to explain how the garden is laid out, here's some wonderful(that's questionable lol) artwork done on paint to give an idea of the odd layout that makes it easy for Hazel to access flowerbeds wherever she goes.
    Garden.png
     
    #5 Acidic Angel, Jul 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  6. StormyThai

    StormyThai Moderator
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    I live with my MIL and I learnt a long time ago that no matter how I put things she will ignore it and do things the way that she wants...she has zero respect for me and thinks that she knows best (even though she has never owned a dog)...so to start with Thai stayed on leash and if she tried to butt in I would remove us from the room.
    My dog, my rules and if you can't follow my rules then you don't get to interact - simple.

    I know that it can be really hard but you have to be an advocate for your dog...It took a while but for the most part the MIL now follows the rules, although I still supervise all interactions (although that is because I do not trust my MIL because she does stupid things around dogs :rolleyes:)
     
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  7. Acidic Angel

    Acidic Angel Your ego does not surpass your pets wellbeing

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    If I could get my fiance on my side, this would probably be something we could attempt... As it stands, if I'm fighting his nan I'm fighting him too. "Her house, her rules" he says... And I can't use "my dog, my rules" as an argument because by rights, Hazel is his dog not mine, and he likes to bring this up when it comes to certain things...

    The other issue is, even with him on my side, she ignores us both. He, at first, had issues with the "off" vs "down" debate for when she jumps up, but he came around and now uses "off" correctly. Even with both of us telling her it's "Off" when she jumps up, she ignores us both.
     
  8. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    But you're not fighting anyone if you just do your thing. Put Hazel on a leash and keep her with you.
    If someone says "how unfair" just smile sweetly and either make a non-committal grunt, or say she's fine, or that you're working on her recall.

    Actually, speaking of that, getting a really solid recall would solve all of this. Before Hazel has the chance to go in to the flowerbeds or jump up on anyone, simply call her back to you. Get her to do a few tricks that she enjoys, lots of treats, make the whole interaction much more fun than what she would have been doing. She'll soon learn to stick by you at Nan's house. If she's by your side, no opportunity for anyone else to reprimand her right?
     
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  9. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel PetForums VIP

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    There is another simple solution: leave Hazel at home when you visit Nan! Less stress all round by the sounds of it:D
     
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  10. ShibaPup

    ShibaPup PetForums VIP

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    Have you considered a flexi on a harness? Might be more suitable.

    If she says it's unfair - simply say you're training her.

    Honestly learning to ignore some people, play dumb by just agreeing but ignoring, or play deaf works wonders - people have all sorts of opinions, just do what's best for you and Hazel.
     
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  11. Acidic Angel

    Acidic Angel Your ego does not surpass your pets wellbeing

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    My fiance removes her collar and lead if I put them on her while we're there, so I am fighting him even if I try to do something about it. His excuse "She's fine, she doesn't need to be kept on a lead all the time.".
    Her recall is getting there, but the reason she goes on the flowerbeds is because my OH's nan admits squirrels go down through them, and birds. And being a gundog with a good nose, that's all a very inviting scent to her. Sometimes, if I see her heading for the flower beds, I'll call her over and she abandons the idea in favour of coming to me... But a lot of the time the lure of the scent, or the lure of wanting to eat flowers is too strong, and that's when I stand up and go "Off!", which she listens to. It's not like she's going rummaging for hours on end, and she's never outside without me. But my OH's nan is very adamant in her way of training, so even if I call her off the flowerbeds and she leaves them, I'm overthrown in the middle of praising Hazel or overruled by his nan shouting at her. And she won't let Hazel just come to me and be praised for behaving, she stops her and makes her sit and be told off and I want to just go "She listened, she came off, let me praise her now." but I'm not allowed to, not that she'd listen anyway because "this is how I trained Honey"... :Shifty

    Hazel + harness is a bad mixture, we only use her harness when we're going out and taking her long line becaus eshe hates the harness. So it only gets used for the extra exciting stuff to try and minimise stress.

    As above(in another post) if this was an option, I would leave her at home in her crate. We only go for a couple of hours anyway, she'd be fine for that.
     
  12. ShibaPup

    ShibaPup PetForums VIP

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    All you can do is really work on recall or even heel - try proximity games to keep her by you without a lead. Micromanage, take a toy, flirt pole, high value treats - whatever she really enjoys.

    Or refuse to take her.

    Or make alternative plans with your OH - see if you can go out, or stay in occasionally.
     
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  13. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel PetForums VIP

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    Ok perfect solution number 3 of mine, and this is my last one so hoping you like it.

    Take hazel. Take crate. Hazel in crate in nan's house. In the shade. Nice and comfy. You in garden. Problem solved. Please tell me that is the answer lol
     
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  14. Acidic Angel

    Acidic Angel Your ego does not surpass your pets wellbeing

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    Micromanaging is the way I've been going with it(this only started recently, because she only recently started going on the flowerbeds), taking her flirt pole with us, tasty treats, sittign and training with her on the grass, etc...

    I love this one, and I wish it was the answer. OH comes into this one, and then so does his nan.
    OH won't fold and take her crate every Sunday, and the one time we did, his nan let her out after 30 minutes because "she looks miserable in there all alone".... My main issue is I'm alone in dealing with this for the most part, because my OH just will not stand up to his nan. Then again, he didn't see anythign wrong with her previous springer so thinks somehow she's the be all to end all of training. Her springer, Honey, was fat, got one 30 minute walk in a morning, then got left in the conservatory with the door open into the garden to do her own thing. She wasn't allowed in the house during the day unless it was raining. She was neurotic, fearful, and generally just shut down. When she was allowed inside, she was made to lay in her bed in the hallway until tea time, and after tea it was 15 minutes in the garden to do her business and back to her bed.
     
  15. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel PetForums VIP

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    Well you have had the best brains on the forum on your problem here (include myself in that of course;)) so these are the best solutions you're going to get i think!
     
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  16. Acidic Angel

    Acidic Angel Your ego does not surpass your pets wellbeing

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    I know :(
    If I could just get my OH to not be such a sheep, I'd probably not struggle so much. But then, I wonder if it would even change anything since she already ignores us both on the one thing he tries to help me with....

    I keep trying to think of excuses to keep her at home but it wouldn't work because my OH would know it's an excuse and take her anyway. The only time his nan said she wasn't allowed over was when she was in season, because his nan is very house proud and wouldn't have her there while she was bleeding.
     
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  17. 3dogs2cats

    3dogs2cats PetForums VIP

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    If your OH doesn't want to leave Hazel at home you could always sit out a few visits yourself, I don't mean don't visit ever again I just mean sit a couple of Sundays out, it may be less of an issue if it is not a weekly event for you.

    If that not possible and leaving Hazel at home is not an option either then I think you have just got to grit your teeth for a couple of hours every week at the same time teaching a solid recall so Hazel doesn't get to go on the flowerbeds.
     
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  18. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    Feel free to tell me this is none of my business, but this right here sounds like a relationship issue, not a dog training issue.
    If OH puts a leash on one of our dogs and I walk up right after him and take it off, there would definitely be a discussion, and likewise if it were OH taking the leash off after I put it on. Not cool. Rather disrespectful in fact.

    Any chance you and OH can have a discussion about this?
     
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  19. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel PetForums VIP

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    This has gone round full circle. Remember the issue with the OH not wanting hazel at training classes?
     
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  20. Linda Weasel

    Linda Weasel PetForums VIP

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    Didn’t read all the posts here, so sorry if someone already said this.

    Can you keep her on lead when she goes into the garden.

    You will be keeping her off the flowerbeds (you could tell nan it’s training) and so avoid her getting told off.
     
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