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How to tell who is an ethical breeder?

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by Sandor Fagyal, May 16, 2018.


  1. Sandor Fagyal

    Sandor Fagyal PetForums Newbie

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    Hi,

    I wonder if you had a suggestion on what would be the best way to objectively and easily tell an ethical breeder apart from a bad breeder. I believe if a breeder has registered with a kennel club and a member of a breed club, they have to live up to a standard to meet their Code of Ethics and breeding requirements. A typical back yard breeder and a puppy mill would not go to that extant so this should be a big differentiator. Wouldn't you agree that being a registered breeder should be a minimum requirement?
     
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  2. Jamesgoeswalkies

    Jamesgoeswalkies PetForums VIP

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    A registered breeder over here in the UK (you can be registered by the council) simply means that you breed over a certain number of litters a year. In other words a 'professional breeder' which is not necessarily a sign that a breeder is ethical.

    I notice from you other post that you talk of a 'registered kennel name'. Now I agree that if breeding a purebred/pedigree dog then being registered with the Kennel Club is a must as this certifies the pedigree. It is also a must to be able to see what health tests have been carried out (which you can see from the KC site). This would to me be a minimum. However a 'registered kennel name' is a different thing altogether and again to me not necessary proof that a breeder is ethical. It's just something you buy.

    Many, many dogs now are cross-breeds (ie; cockerpoo's) and with the correct health tests and breeding practices they can be ethically bred too. Non can register with the Kennel Club though some may be registered with a breed club.

    J
     
  3. Sandor Fagyal

    Sandor Fagyal PetForums Newbie

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    James,
    Thanks your your reply. So, the most practical way to tell the difference between a breeder and a puppy mill and back yard breeder is 2 things:
    1. registered kennel name
    2. health screenings done on the breeding parents
    How about show results of the parent dogs? I am looking for clues to see what would tell if someone cares about the breed and works toward maintaining and improving breed standard. I understand this is not enough alone but added it to our list of 2 minimum points, we would have 3 points as a guidance.

    There is definitely a growing number of cross-breeds or hybrid dogs and I agree many are from healthy parents. But because they are not regulated it would be even harder to identify good, ethical breeders. Not to mention that purebred dog breeders can get greatly upset over hybrid dogs.

    What do you think?
     
  4. Jamesgoeswalkies

    Jamesgoeswalkies PetForums VIP

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    If you are looking to separate breeder of pure bred dogs from puppy farmers (who can mass produce registered purebreds) then yes, rule of thumb for advertising sites would be - KC Registration (which can be verified). Health tests (which can be verified) and yes, for show dogs proof of any show wins/accreditation etc. But to be honest if i were going to purchase a purebred from a breeder and was using those three criteria, I would probably go directly through the Kennel Club site or a Breed Club Site, although there are couple of other sites worth looking at.

    But breeding a purebred (show) dog and ethical breeding are not the same thing of course. One doesn't necessarily mean the other.


    J
     
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  5. Sandor Fagyal

    Sandor Fagyal PetForums Newbie

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    Thank you James,

    So there are 3 minimum criteria to meet:
    1. registered kennel name
    2. health screenings done on the breeding parents
    3. show results
    If these are met, then it is very likely we have found a good breeder who is probably ethical. As you pointed out if a breeder has all of these, it doesn't immediately mean he/she is ethical. But I think no one could objectively tell from an ad (whether it is on a kennel club's site or another site) and even if met in person.

    I agree with you that Kennel Club's site are great source for good breeders. But here is the problem: most people don't think this far and outside of the UK many country's kennel club's don't list the breeders. So, people will easily make the wrong choice when browsing typical classified sites, wether it is general or animal focused.
     
  6. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    Szia Sandor

    I'm English living in Hungary and own two FCI registered dogs bred by top Hungarian breeders. In both cases the puppies came from show lines and one or both of their parents were Hungarian champions.

    When looking to buy them as puppies I went about it in exactly the same way as I would have done in the UK. I expected to see the pedigrees of both dam and sire and to receive proof that all relevant health checks had been done. I also expected the breeder to answer any queries I might have and in turn question me and my plans/abilities to care for one of his puppies properly.

    Some articles which might help!

    https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/

    https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/help-advice/advice-for-owners/buying-a-dog/buying-a-dog

    ://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog-or-puppy/finding-the-right-breeder/assured-breeder-scheme-information-for-pedigree-puppy-buyers/buyers-faqs/

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1TSdvcqmx9kKRTs0kkvZdLd/how-to-buy-a-puppy

    Hope that helps!
     
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  7. Sandor Fagyal

    Sandor Fagyal PetForums Newbie

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    Szia MagyarMum :)

    I really appreciate your help. Can one actually check to see if a breeder is registered with the Kennel Club in the UK on their website? I could not find it.

    Would you say that this page provides the necessary information to decide whether this breeder is a good breeder even before one would get in touch with her?
    https://wuuff.dog/en/valburg-rackeresztur

    Thanks for your help!
     
  8. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel PetForums VIP

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    I don't know if this is a sign or not but I certainly found I had to do quite a bit of 'getting my foot in the door' to even be considered for a pup. When I got my Tibetan Terrier, the best known breeders were only prepared to sell to people known to them. I went through many 'interviews' but the breeder i really wanted to buy from wasn't prepared to sell to me.

    Similar with my Brittany. I had to get my name known first.

    So - in my (very limited) experience good breeders won't sell to anyone. Be prepared to be join a waiting list for a good pup.
     
  9. havoc

    havoc PetForums VIP

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    Cares about the breed standard or cares about the overall health of the breed? What would improve some breeds in my eyes would have a breeder departing from what does well on a show bench.
     
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  10. Sandor Fagyal

    Sandor Fagyal PetForums Newbie

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    Thanks!
     
  11. Sunlark

    Sunlark PetForums Junior

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    You want someone who isn't willing to sell a dog to just anyone. Usually they will ask you if you have any experience with the breed, and will be happy to talk to you about breed typical behaviour and breed specific problems you may face. Pedigree doesn't always mean ethical.
     
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  12. Sandor Fagyal

    Sandor Fagyal PetForums Newbie

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    You are right about that.

    I wonder how to deal with this if the breeder doesn't speak the same language. Communication will become very limited and often tiresome. But then, I can feel - based on the information I found - that this breeder is someone I can trust.
     
  13. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    Sorry I didn't reply straight away. Here you go .... How to get to the assured breeder list on the KC Website

    Go to the Kennel Club website home page

    https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/ and you'll see on the right hand side at the top "getting a dog" Click enter

    https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog-or-puppy/

    About a third of the way down on the left hand side of the page you'll see "shortcuts" followed by a list. Second down on the right hand side you'll find "Find an assured breeder" Click enter.

    www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/acbr/Default.aspx Then click on whichever breed you want to find the names of KC assured breeders for.

    In answer to whether the information the breeder has provided would interest me enough to contact her. The answer is yes because she comes across as someone who's committed to the breed and also provides the guarantees I'd expect from a responsible breeder.

    I was going to mention that language can be a problem. It might be an idea to list the languages the breeder speaks because as someone whose Hungarian is poor I'm often asked if I speak German (which I don't). I do however speak reasonably fluent French and understand quite a lot of Spanish and Dutch (not that it helps living in Hungary)!. Or is it possible to put an automatic translate facility on the website? I do all my online shopping on non-English speaking websites where everything is automatically translated from the "native" language into English Just a thought!

    If I can help in any other way just ask.
     
  14. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    Some breeds of dog can't have a registered kennel name because their breed isn't recognised by the Kennel Club - for instance I'm into Welsh Sheepdogs and the breed society wants nothing to do with the Kennel Club - so these dogs can't be shown either (and are valued for their working ability anyway, not what they look like). And show results - what about the working lines of breeds such as Basset Hounds or Golden Retrievers which are vastly different (and healthier on the whole) than their show-bred counterparts.
    I reckon you have to meet the breeder, do your research on their dogs and build a relationship to the point where you know if they really care about their dogs (and the puppies they produce) including what happens to retired breeding dogs - do they keep them as loved pets or move them on? Do the dogs live as part of their family are out in kennels? For me, I'd be looking at small, non-registered 'hobby' breeders who produce few litters - maybe just a couple every few years. Money is in the equation too - people who charge a lot may have that as their main concern. When I bred a litter, I divided the cost of breeding them between the number of pups and asked no more than that.
     
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