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hi guys :) newby looking for some guidance

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by biti_foki, Oct 29, 2015.


  1. biti_foki

    biti_foki PetForums Newbie

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    hi guys,
    newby looking for some guidance and help, im sure the dreaded allergy topic comes up a fair bit...
    I have a 6 yr old goldie, I got him at 6 mths old, back then he only had a flair up once a year around sept/oct time, this has over the years increased and we are not at the point where he has lived in a buster collar for the last year. he is hot itchy stinky and miserable!
    he has been on steroids for the last year, we have had every ear cleaner under the sun, medicated shampoos, diet changes the lot.
    now I have found a product called 'stinky stuff' it really does smell but it has worked wonders on his feet, in a matter of days he had fur growing back, so if you have a hot spot sufferer or any dry itchy skin issues this is incredible and would highly recommend it.
    but my issue is we haven't in years got to a point where is itch free and not in a cone. I went to the vets today for MORE steroids and she decided to give him a go on apoquel, a double dose of 4 tab a day then dropping after one week to 2 a day. I have heard amazing results short term on this but my worry comes with long term use, I have done some at home research and I wasn't happy with what I have found out, so wondered if any one has been using long term and can give some input??

    my next thing is trying desp to come up with a diet suited to him, now I am not rich ( this plauges me so please no negative comments about being able to afford things ect) he is currently on skinner salmon and potato. he doesn't suffer from any tummy upsets witch helps. the vet last time I saw her gave me a list of NO NO'S in his diet, witch I have stuck too and seen no difference, however when I went back today she gave me a list of 'branded' vet diets to try, so went away had a look only to find them full off all the things she told me he cant have" (confused much) so any diet input would be a great help also :)

    And if any one has any other advice or tips on allergies, herbal,natural,medicated ect doesn't matter im game for any thing that brings my baby some relief, as it horrid seeing his puffy face so sad all the time .
    under is a photo of his feet before and after this stinky stuff......amazing!!

    thanks for any help or advise on where I can turn next its much appreciated :)
     

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  2. Goblin

    Goblin PetForums VIP

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    I know another member who has some experience of problems with a goldie and will try to get them to post some of their experiences and hints/tips.
     
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  3. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    I don't own a Goldiie but I do know of several Shar-Pei owners (a breed that's notorious for skin problems and allergies) who've reported success with their dog's skin problems by adding coconut oil and turmeric paste to their dog's diet. You'll find plenty of information on the use of both if you do an online search.
     
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  4. Lilylass

    Lilylass PetForums VIP

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    Poor button - glad you've found something to help his paws, that's an amazing improvement! Dermecton is another product worth a shot as they have shampoo, spray & cream & is fab for itchy dogs

    I'd be reluctant to try vet foods tbh - most aren't that great quality - what foods haven't you established cause problem & we can may be make some suggestions

    Re the apoquel there are several on here who use it for their dogs so hopefully will be along later

    I'm not sure why would you think it would cause more harm than long term steroid use?

    Mine is on slow dose of steroids & high dose of antihistamines which works well for us

    Although I'd rather get her off the steroids - her quality of life is a big factor for me & she'd be miserable itching all the time (which she does when not on them)

    Good luck
     
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  5. biti_foki

    biti_foki PetForums Newbie

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    Thanks guys, lily lass he isn't really affected buy food in my opion it's more for the vets to see I'm doing my bit, witch I have done as he has done there 3/4 month on a wheat free,grain free, chicken,lamb,beef,all singing free diet already and it made no difference. In the past we have had csj,chappie,skinners,scallywags, even tried raw for a while. So I'm not convinced it's a diet related allergy. He is flead monthly, I have no grass in back garden and his feet are washed after every walk.
    I know there are long term steroid affects his bloods where fine a few weeks back when checking his liver markers ect, it's just when I did my research on the apoquel was quite scary to see how many of there case study groups developed cancer or grew large tumors as a side effect amongst otherthings, I know all meds have a % of adverse reactions, just looking for some one with more knowledge to put me at ease. Although the vet seems to think this is my only real choice, witch I'm OK with if it works.
    Wish some one would hurry up with a natural miracle cure haha!!
     
  6. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    I'd go with a raw diet, have a thyroid test run and add coconut oil to the diet PLUS give turmeric golden paste. I've seen lots and lots of skin problems in dogs and horses resolved on the Turmeric Users Group on Facebook and I use it daily for my own five dogs and myself - for general well being/joint function. The group was started by Austrailan vet, Doug English who is the vet on Skys Bondi Beach vet programme and very much an advocate of the use of turmeric. Coconut oil is renowned for helping skin conditions and is beneficial all round for our dogs. Steroids have their place but they deplete the immune system entirely and can also create problems in themselves and testing the thyroid would be a good idea because any deficiency there will have an impact on the skin also, while other more 'clinical' signs may not be presented. I'd probably go to see an holistic vet for a second opinion because you have absolutely nothing to lose and perhaps everything to gain. Good luck. ;)
    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
     
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  7. biti_foki

    biti_foki PetForums Newbie

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    Thank you malmum. Haven't come across the use of tumaric as yet so will deff give it ago, I have tried coconut oil as a topical cream but not as a digest one so will give this ago also, I found raw very tricky last time both with freezer space and also having very young kids and carpets from a hygiene point of view it was a nightmare!
    We had thyroid tested all came back fine with that, so we know it's deff an allergy to something, pretty sure it's environmental as it only used to be over Sept/Oct time but has slowly increased to all year round, the vets said this has been the case for many of his clients in the last few years.
     
  8. biti_foki

    biti_foki PetForums Newbie

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    What sort of does do you give on the tumric malmum?
     
  9. Westie Mum

    Westie Mum PetForums VIP

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    My westie boy has been on Apoquel for the last two weeks and although fab for stopping the itches in super quick time, I don't want him on them long term either. It's a new drug and no one really knows the long term effects.

    We have only just started an elimination diet, although he was already on a grain free, good quality diet beforehand but my understanding is unless you remove absolutely everything, you'll never know if it's something in the kibble (storage mites) or even the potato/sweet potato.

    Oscars currently on kangaroo meat and added rice (he never usually has grains so shouldn't show any allergy to it). Yes my vet suggested the prescription diet but then openly admitted hydronised chicken feathers as an ingredient !

    We stopped the Apoquel yesterday and so far, no itches but very very early days.

    We will gradually introduce one thing back into his diet as the weeks/months go on and see if we can determine a food allergy. If we cannot find a food allergy then Our next step would be allergy tests for environmental.
     
  10. Lilylass

    Lilylass PetForums VIP

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    Ohhh thx - someone suggested the fb group to me the other week for the tumeric recipe but I'd not been able to find it & I couldn't remember who'd suggested it / the thread to try to find out more info (fb skills are basic!) - will be giving it a try!
     
  11. Twiggy

    Twiggy PetForums VIP

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    If I can make the Golden Paste - anybody can.....LOL

    Here's the Facebook page you want: Turmeric User Group
     
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  12. Lilylass

    Lilylass PetForums VIP

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    Thank you @Twiggy :) - have joined, have the recipe & have ordered a bag of tumeric powder so ..... nearly there!

    A quick question ..... have you any idea how to stop all the notifications appearing on your home page?

    I have turned notifications off but still seem to be getting ALL the posts appearing - it's nice that it's a busy group but there must've been about 100 posts already! :eek: (and there's no way I can keep up with that!)

    ETA - think I've done it! I've 'unfollowed' the group which seems a bit of an odd thing to do but the messages seem to have stopped - much more manageable to go to the page every couple of days to catch up!
     
    #12 Lilylass, Nov 1, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2015
  13. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    Hi

    Apologies for the slow reply, it was me that Goblin was referring to. I managed to see this on Saturday and then completely lost track of the weekend.

    My golden retriever is 7 years old and has had skin issues since he was less than a year of age. I did start writing a thread about it (in my sig) but lost track of time on that but it covers his history quite well. His skin is currently the most stable it has ever been, but he has had digestive issues in more recent years too. Funnily enough I just switched him to his new vets today, and they think his digestive issues may actually be pancreatic bouts (many vets believe steroids cause pancreatitis, Rupert no longer has these but did have for a while), whereas my previous vets thought it was just an acid build up.

    I have torn my hair out for literally years over Rupert. It is heart wrenching seeing them stuck in buster collars for so much of their life. Rupert is too smart for comfy cones etc and literally has to live in the boring plastic ones if/when he has a flare up.

    It doesn't sound like you have found anything that triggers your lad's issues, which is pretty similar to Rupert. He seems sensitive to mediations, eg. when he has had an anaesthetic or sedation his skin will flare up. When he is vaccinated his skin flares up (he is no longer vaccinated because his reactions to everything have gotten more severe with his age).

    Rupert is also on special food. I'm not a fan of big brand 'fixer' foods. New vets are trying to suggest some of those and I'm only interested in pursuing them if they're low fat (for the pancreatitis) and fit in with his intolerance requirements which I will come to in a moment. I think many things will suit many dogs and not others, so very hard to recommend foods and the like unless it is a very specific requirement, but atopy is too vague most of the time. Rupert used to be raw fed, but in the last six months has switched to soaked kibble 24/7. The acid build up was too much of an issue and he was throwing up undigested food which meant enough was enough re raw. He had been raw fed for approx four years.

    Last October (2014) he had a test done called Nutriscan. Its done in America and tests for intolerances, not allergies. Rupert has had blood tests/skin tests and allergies have always come back clear. This came back and said he was intolerant to white fish and maize though. I removed those from his diet, and apart from slightly dodgy ears every few months (which I can deal with myself at home), his skin is an awful lot better. If you wanted to read about it, here is the link:

    http://www.nutriscan.org

    Lots of people dispute whether tests are accurate and the like, but when you get desperate like us I think its worth a go and we certainly haven't come off worse for it. Have you got pet insurance that covers the skin problem?

    Re Apoquel. I am not a fan. There are others on the market which I am also not a fan of, nor steroid. Don't get me wrong, when the dogs are really bad, and you need something to fix them immediately they do the job, but I don't like suppressing the immune system long term. If an animal is so unwell it is at death's door already fine, but *touch wood* Rupert and your boy aren't at that point and it would be a last resort for me.

    I am of the opinion that trying to make them healthy from the inside out is worth a go. Oils are meant to be good for the skin, and I figure that at least if his skin is healthy, it should heal better when it gets bad. Rupert has Moxxor oil capsules which are Green Lipped Mussel. He did have others but unless the oil is cold pressed it can't be absorbed properly or something. This is another big thing, yes product A may be great, but it has to be in an absorbable/useful format for the animal. Rupert has gone without Moxxor for a few days at a time due to supply issues and his skin has flared up, I believe as a direct result. He has been on the Moxxor for approx 3 years + I think now, and he really is the best he has ever been. It is just Green Lipped Mussel so no adverse effects likely to occur. Costs about £40 a bottle which lasts one month for GR sized dogs.

    Moxxor link here:
    http://www.naturallyhealthydogs.co.uk/blog/2011/11/23/Introducing-Moxxor.aspx

    I am sure you probably have regimes for treating skin flare ups at home, but might as well share mine in case it helps. I buy Vetzyme Antibacterial powder and start slapping that on, it also helps because it dries up the area if its a weepy one. Certainly helps take the sting off if you need to take them to the vets for it later etc. My process is usually clip all around the area, clean with salt water, pat dry and liberally smother in Vetzyme, its under £4 a pot online and lasts ages. Dermacton is something lots rave about but that made Rupert's skin even angrier so I steered clear of that. Our choice of shampoo is Episoothe. It has ingredients that continue to release what is meant to be a soothing effect on the skin even after it is washed off which I don't believe many do, hence why we stump up the cost for that.

    If you want to PM or ask any questions/toss around suggestions feel free to contact me. Its so frustrating when you are stuck 'managing' and feeling like there is no solution. None of Rupert's siblings have issues, nor did his Mum/Grandma/half sister that the breeder still owned, so I think we are just very unlucky. Still, wouldn't be without them would we :)
     
  14. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    Also, if you get chance can you tell me a bit more about the Stinky Stuff? Rupert's hair is a bit sparse on his back, has been for a few years to be honest so may just be like it forever, but I would be interested in giving the SS a go. Is it very sticky, or do you leave it in their fur and it gets absorbed etc?
     
  15. biti_foki

    biti_foki PetForums Newbie

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    Wow thank you golden shadow! I have no Internet at home,and my phone is pants! I will pm or reply properly tomorrow when at moms, the ss is truly been amazing the company send me out a huge tub as a thank you for me letting them use my pics and testament on the page, if you can pm my your address I will more than happily send you some out to try for your self, u can use it daily but have to wash it off once a week to avoid a build up. They advice you combine with a carrier oli to dilute it (I will include this for you) but didn't work for us so I use it neat (witch is safe once a patch test is done) it is pretty smelly but no worse than a good old ear infection!! How fast it worked was incredible :) will message about all other bits tomorrow, it's been a huge help but I'm very new to all the meds so bear with me and my questions haha
     
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  16. biti_foki

    biti_foki PetForums Newbie

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    morning,


    better internet now :) in regards to food......i think i would almost find it easier if he had a food issue at least then i would have a starting point and a plan of how to go about finding the source of the issue and plenty of info on diets ect to help us. but sadly doesnt seem to make the blind bit of differance what food he is on its no worse or better.
    we are nearly 6 days into apoquel and he is still itchy :( he is still in a buster collar and i do not trust him to be left on his own with out one, his itch seems to be ears and face, the stinky stuff cleared up his feet beautifully so i may start using it under his chin and on his cheeks as a kick start. So, i just need to crack what i can use on his ears as he currently stinks! although the vet didnt seem to think they did. he has a medicated ear cleaner, cant remember the name sorry, i also use a 1% hydrocortizone from he chemist on the outsides of his ears when he has a bad flare up just to take away the heat and swelling.
    once he is at a stable point it is then working out what i need to do and how often to keep him at a stable point, i really dont want him on any meds at all if i can help it, so need all the advise and info on what oils,herbs ect can be used, will look at the ones already advised but if you know of any thing else please let me know.
    Just a foot note ,the stinky stuff isnt a hair growth help, its used for any skin issues at all, was first developed for horses, for use on mites and sweet itch ect and now is used for all animals and even humans as a healing property, any open whelts, skin issues, blisters, ANY THING at all,so as soon as i see any small signs of his feet going red or hair falling out i start it up and within a day or so its cleared up again. if you are on facebook have a look at their page for full info, but like i said, i am happy to send out test pots for any one wanting to have a try.
    Please keep the advise and help coming, i will read often and reply when i can.
     
  17. Westie Mum

    Westie Mum PetForums VIP

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    Apoquel stopped the itching within a few hours here and our vet did say that if it hadn't dramatically reduced within 48 hours then it was unlikely it would work at all.

    My understanding is that it will only stop the itching if it's an allergy. If it's another issue it won't stop it at all.
     
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  18. biti_foki

    biti_foki PetForums Newbie

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    wooohhhhhhh what a few days of research and reading and talking and sourcing it has been!!

    so, we are day 7 of the apoquel, and to be honest, its having no real effect. Having just spent a small fortune ordering some grrr,
    So, went on a google mission and i think i may be onto somthing.........YEAST!
    It kinda all makes sense to me now after spending the day reading on it and how Antibi's ect will make it worse and its a cycle that cant be broken with meds, as they supress the immune system ect and the smell which we deff have. Alot of the info seems to be American but thats fine with me. This is the web site i have read through but there is a huge amount out there


    http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2015/06/07/dog-yeast-infection.aspx

    i have also been out and sorted some new food, decided for a while to go back down the raw route, this stuff seems great, its already done for you in a kind of mince meat witch is handy so no getting hands dirty or having slabs of meat being dragged around the house haha


    http://feedyourdogsinnerwolf.com/#/shop/4572492837/natural-instinct-working-dog-duck---1kg/4545235

    soooo.......... how many of you have looked into yeast as a cause? and what where your findings? and how have you gone about treatments?
    very intested to get feedback on this one finally feels like i may have some sort of lead on things :)
     
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