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Help - Recently had Diabetes diagnosis

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by Moomooolittlepaws, Jul 4, 2017.


  1. Moomooolittlepaws

    Moomooolittlepaws PetForums Junior

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    Hello , new here. On Monday my little pooch Katie Pup was diagnosed with diabetes. The vets think she may have undiagnosed Cushing disease but they are leaving that for now to stabalize her. She has lost 2kg in a few months, overed up by long fur and a big tummy. She is 3/4 Yorkshire terrier and a 1/4 Cairn. I feel absolutely awful to have not realised that something was up.
    Anyway since Monday, she has continued to lose weight. Her insulin has gone from 1.5 to 2.5 twice a day. She has been in for a glucose curve test today and it was sky high. That's why it's now up to 2.5
    I have been told to feed her as a 6kg dog twice a day after the injections. She is on Vets Kitchen which l can see is high in carbs but our Vet wants her to stay on the same food until she is stabalized. She has one more antibiotic to take tonight for a UTI. I weigh out her food now and my other two dogs as feeding them twice a day as the boys get grumpy about food and they will snarl and fight if they think some is getting more than them. They are separated, so l know exactly what she has eaten and no one can eat her food. Katiepup is a poo eater and even though l pick up after them in the garden etc - she does nip out in the dark at night and comes in reluctantly chomping on poo She won't perform on a lead! The vet is aware but says we have to work with what we've got!
    Yesterday we started walking again. I take my grandson and the dogs out for about an hour and a half walk but as she is tired, have rigged a large bag and tied it to the handlebars of the push chair and have put a bed in there for her. It was a great success as l let her walk a few hundred yards, then popped her in the bag for a bit, then let her off lead where it is safe and off road, then popped her back in the bag for a bit. It probably meant she walked for just under half an hour.
    I just don't know what to do for the best, exercise etc. I know they have to stabalize her but this is absolutely frightening . I am going to do everything l am told but basically haven't a clue.
    Any advice and support would be much appreciated x Moo
     
  2. lullabydream

    lullabydream PetForums VIP

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    Will tag @SixStar for you, hopefully she may come on here sometime soon and offer support.

    One of her dogs was diagnosed a while back, and she found it overwhelming at first but did work throughout it , so you will not be the only one to feel overwhelmed, and daunted by this all.

    Some others may have advice, but am not too sure who
     
  3. SixStar

    SixStar Banned

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    Hi Moo - welcome to the forum, I'm sorry it's under such circumstances.

    Jake, my Greyhound, was diagnosed with diabetes in April 2015 - he was 12 at the time. To say I was absolutely terrified would be the understatement of the century!

    First things first - whilst I know everything is scary right now - things do get better! Take your time, do not rush yourself, and take all the help & support your vet can give you - and if you need more, don't be afraid to ask - I ended up taking Jake into the surgery morning & evening for the first little while whilst I got the hang of the injections. t'll be huge learning curve, but you'll get there.

    As you know, stabilising her blood sugars and getting her on an insulin schedule which works is the paramount issue right now. There's no magic trick for that one, just trial & error. Has your vet suggested you monitor Katie's blood glucose at home? This can be done with a kit which just requires a tiny drop of blood - usually from a little knick made in the ear. This can really help identity blood glucose patterns and get you on the right insulin dosage. This might be worth mentioning to your vet if it's not something that's been suggested already.

    I am inclined to agree with your vet regarding diet for now. That can be changed at a later date if needed, but best not to rock the apple cart at the moment.

    Hmm, leaving the Cushings Disease makes me a little uneasy - if she does have cushings, it'll be making her feel pretty rotten, so diagnosing that and treating if necessary would be a priority for me. How old is Katie?

    Jake is now 14 and recently diagnosed with kidney disease - however his diabetes remains under control and he is in good form, so please don't get disheartened - things will get easier and there is no reason why Katie can't live a long, normal life.
     
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  4. Moomooolittlepaws

    Moomooolittlepaws PetForums Junior

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    Thanks Lullaby.
     
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  5. Moomooolittlepaws

    Moomooolittlepaws PetForums Junior

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    Thank you Sixstar, Katie pup has just turned 9 past March. Today when we all went out for our walk, Katie was mostly in her bag till we got to the grassy track where it is peaceful and safe to let the dogs lose. She seems extra tired today. Good news is she is dry in the night now, so something is working right. I will ask the vet about glucose testing when l see her next week. Katie is going in for the day for a curve test. Agree about the Cushing, t must be affecting her or she wouldn't have got the Diabetes.s
     
  6. Moomooolittlepaws

    Moomooolittlepaws PetForums Junior

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    . Will talk about that too.
    So happy to see that Jake is still with you and that you have managed his diabetes. I hope you get a good prognosis with the kidney disease. It is reassuring that l might get to be as calm as you about Katie pup as at the moment she looks she is fading away.
    Can l ask about the exercise? Did you take jake out at the beginning?i don't want Katie to burn off her calories as not much fat there at all apart from her huge tummy x
     
  7. Paddypaws

    Paddypaws PetForums VIP

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    Excuse me sidling in from the cat forum, but the Diabetes title caught my eye having quite a lot of experience with diabetic cats.
    @SixStar I am really interested that you mention home testing as we do this for cats via a lancet prick in the ear but I had always been told that route was not so successful for dogs. I tested my cats multiple times a day and calculated the insulin dose dependant on the reading.
    For cats at least, diet is extremely important as higher carb foods will make it very much harder to control the BG, BUT you need to be careful changing the food unless you can test the BG to make sure it is not dropping too low which would cause siezures.
    @Moomooolittlepaws I hope your girl perks up and responds well to the insulin.
    BTW, D-Mannose is great for urine infections
    Urine infections are common when BG is very high as the sugar spills over into the urine and attracts bacterial overgrowth. The fading weight also shows that she is not being able to absorb her food properly due to unregulated BG
     
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  8. SixStar

    SixStar Banned

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    Hello - my vet was very keen for us to test blood glucose at home. Got our little journal where we make notes of it everyday! We just do twice a day now, but was more often at the start.
     
  9. Moomooolittlepaws

    Moomooolittlepaws PetForums Junior

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    Thanks Paddypaws, cannot imagine having to inject any of my four cats. Would be scarred for life. All ferocious girls !!! Sorry but what does BG stand for? X
     
  10. Moomooolittlepaws

    Moomooolittlepaws PetForums Junior

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  11. Paddypaws

    Paddypaws PetForums VIP

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    BG stands for blood glucose and tracking it tells you if the insulin has the blood sugars properly under control.
     
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  12. Moomooolittlepaws

    Moomooolittlepaws PetForums Junior

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    THankyou, vets on Tuesday for a curve test. Will see if l can ask about doing it x
    Well done sixstar - sounds like you are very Organized. I am sure Katie has dropped more weight. She is a bag if binds without her fur Xxx
     
  13. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    Having had a dog with cushings disease but admittedly not diabetic as well, I do know that a dog with untreated cushings does tend to have raised glucose levels amongst other things just from the high levels of cortisol you get with cushings disease alone. I haven't though had any experience with a dog who is both diabetic and cushings.

    The following article and information does seem to suggest that testing for Cushings aka
    hyper adrenocorticism isn't done until there is usually some control on the Diabetes side as it can throw off results of the tests for cushings.

    Diagnosis of hyperadrenocorticism in patients with diabetes mellitus

    Adrenal function testing of a patient with DM is indicated when insulin resistance is suspected and/or clinical and clinicopathologic changes suggestive of HAC persist with appropriate insulin therapy. Screening tests for HAC are not performed until some glycemic control (blood glucose 100-350 mg/dl) is achieved with insulin since patients that are extremely hypo- or hyperglycemic may have falsely positive test results.

    The whole article is below which you may find helpful
    http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/diagnosis-and-management-cushingoid-diabetic-dog-proceedings
     
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  14. Moomooolittlepaws

    Moomooolittlepaws PetForums Junior

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    Hi sled dog THankyou for that. I did have a chat with vet about treatment today after Katie's latest curve test. She said the same about getting false readings and that the important thing was getting control of the diabetes. kdespite being very honey, Katie didn't lose weight and they are pleased. She has gone up to 3 1/2 insulin and they want to let her be on this for two weeks before the next curve test, Monday l will be learning to change the pen cartridge of insulin and then can settle down a bit. My takeaway cartons arrived so l can weigh and make up three days of meals twice a day for the next three days. Makes life so much easier. Last week l was a wreck. Love the dogs in your picture are they yours? X Moo
     
  15. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    Hope they soon get her stabalised so they can do the cushings test. I'm sure you will be fine with the pen cartridge, it may seem a little fiddly but once you have done it, it soon becomes easy and quick too do. I haven't got a diabetic dog but I have to use the a pen, cartridges and the needles myself which is the same. Not for insulin but for adult growth hormone.

    Yes the dogs in the Pic are mine, I still have the bigger one he is 11 now but the smaller sadly I lost quite a few years back.
     
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  16. Moomooolittlepaws

    Moomooolittlepaws PetForums Junior

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    Sorry for not getting back sooner, 1700 messages in my in inbox! Decided to sort today. Anyway hot the hang of the pen, bug am now in week 5 and the vet said she is not gaining weight and not responding to insulin. She doesn't know hats wrong. Has taken loads of blood and is having a big brainstorming with other vets tomorrow. Shesays referring her to a specialist would wipe out her insurance and may still not get a result. I am beside myself with worry and not stopped crying since l got the news two hours ago. Has this happened to anyone else?xxx
     
  17. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    Have they tested her for the suspected cushings disease yet? Wondering if she is cushings then that's affecting the insulin and the reason its not getting it under control?
     
  18. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    Something just occurred to me when my dog was treated for cushings as well as monitoring the cortisol levels when she was on the medication they also used to run other blood tests and glucose was one of them, I remembered too that glucose along with liver enzymes and a few other things are also raised in cushings dogs. If the cushings raises the glucose levels in dogs without diabetes then that's maybe why the glucose levels are not being brought down and also the insulin isn't working. Ive found this its by an organisation called pet diabetes organisation and its about pets with diabetes and cushings disease. This part may be of interest

    Special considerations for treating diabetics
    With a possible diabetic and/or Cushoid animal there are three different scenarios that can occur:
    • Your animal may be both diabetic and have Cushing's. As the Cushing's is brought under control your animal's insulin needs will be greatly reduced. Therefore it's very important to monitor your animal's blood glucose until the correct maintenance dose is determined so an overdose of insulin doesn't happen.

    • You can read Kiri's story - she lived with diabetes, Cushing's and hypothyroidism for over 6 years.
    • Your animal may only have Cushing's. The increased blood glucose levels may be a side effect of the Cushing's and once the Cushing's is brought under control there may be no need for insulin anymore.
    • Your animal may only be diabetic. The Cushing's tests may have been altered by one of the previously mentioned causes, resulting in false positive results.


    Questions to ask your vet
    With a diabetic it is very important to take every means possible to stabilize them on their insulin before a Cushing's test is even tried. Some questions to ask your vet:

    • If your animal is unregulated--ask your vet at what amount of insulin they would consider your animal to be needing to bring the glucose levels under control.
    • If your animal has only been on one type of insulin, are they willing to try another type.
    • Would a change in food, feeding schedule, or amount of food make a difference.
    There is also this part about testing animals with cushings

    Diabetic animals can pose a special problem when testing for Cushing's.


    You can read the whole link below
    http://www.caninediabetes.org/pdorg/cushings.htm

    As you can see, diabetes and Cushing’s share many of the same signs (increased drinking, urination, eating, lethargy, enlarged liver). Uncontrolled diabetes can lead to complications that in turn cause increased cortisol levels and signs that are identical to Cushing’s. Testing and diagnosis of Cushing’s in a non-diabetic dog can be complicated, and it can be extremely complicated in a dog that has diabetes. The situation is even worse for a stressed or poorly controlled diabetic because stressed diabetics and Cushing’s dogs can have similar blood panel abnormalities and blood chemistry abnormalities. Plasma ACTH levels, the ACTH stimulation test results, and low-dose dexamethasone suppression test results can be abnormal in a stressed DM dog; the high-dose dexamethasone suppression test results can be abnormal in an unregulated DM dog. There are clinical signs that help distinguish the two disease so your general vet and specialist must consider the “whole picture” of your dog’s physical condition and test results.
     
  19. Moomooolittlepaws

    Moomooolittlepaws PetForums Junior

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    THankyou , I'll give it a read The vet said they tested for Cushing but was not diagnosed, though she did say that sometimes you can get false results. I was at work, so my husband went in to see her and it's all doomand gloom. seems they are preparing me for her end, saying she will go downhill. I can't bear it, l Won't give up but l just don't know what to do. A week after she was diagnosed, her brother was diagnosed with a grade four heart murmur. He is on medication too. My other dog has an anal tumour benign at the last test but can turn cancerous I time. Just being monitored for now. My girl has just turned 9, my boys are 10 and almost 10. Just feel so sad x
     
  20. Rafa

    Rafa PetForums VIP

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    I had seven dogs, all a similar age, so all became elderly/old at the same time.

    It is very hard as sometimes, all you seem to do is worry.

    One of mine had diabetes and, despite regular testing, adjusting of insulin doses, she was never really stabilised.

    Having said that, she lived four years after she was diagnosed.

    Understandably, you feel down, but diabetes is not a death sentence.
     
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