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Health tests not the same as vet check!

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by JANICE199, Mar 23, 2011.


  1. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

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    I've read a few post's in this breeding section where people that are about to breed from their bitch and i think there is a lot of confusion to people new to breeding.It seems,like i myself use to a lot believe that having their bitch checked by their vet is the same as having health tests done.
    With this in mind,when we get a newbie asking about breeding i think it would be wise to point this out before we start with a barage(sp) of questions.
    I don't want anyone to take offence because thats not my intention,just my thoughts.:D
     
    Starlite and babycham2002 like this.
  2. Amethyst

    Amethyst PetForums VIP

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    A very good point :)
     
  3. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

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    Thankyou..:D
    Nobody else with an oppinion?:confused:
     
  4. rocco33

    rocco33 PetForums VIP

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    I think it is generally pointed out. I know I've pointed it out quite frequently. It's the same when people say their vet has checked a puppy and it's healthy. A vet check only covers the basic appearance and current condition of the puppy. A vet check does not tell whether a pup will go on to develop problems as it grows.
     
  5. Jazzy

    Jazzy PetForums VIP

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    I remember someone on another forum asking someone who was intending to breed her dog if they had had their dogs eyes health tested and she said, I don't need to as my vet says my dog has 'lovely' eyes. :lol:
     
  6. Amethyst

    Amethyst PetForums VIP

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    The idiocy of some breeders never ceases to amaze :rolleyes::
     
  7. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

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    I was reading a thread this morning in the breeding section and i only saw 1 post that said a vet check is not the same as health testing.The OP of the thread stated the dogs had been checked by the vet,and from what i assumed they thought that was good enough.Hence the reason for me doing this thread.
    When i 1st joined this forum i hadn't got a clue what the differnce was and i don't think a lot of newbies do either.:)
     
  8. Blondie

    Blondie PetForums VIP

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    A lot of people dont realise health testing can be breed specific too.;)
     
  9. Cockerpoo lover

    Cockerpoo lover PetForums VIP

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    Yes I agree Janice.

    People do have to realise that members on here come from all walks of life.

    People may be inexperienced or naive and come on here asking for advice and sometimes they do get bombarded and often never come back or post anything further.

    I have every respect for the valuable information that the experienced breeders give and I know it's upsetting/frustrating when you feel like the OP isn't listening.

    But sometimes I feel it's they way things are put especially if it gets too personal that has the opposite effect on the OP not taking on the advice given.


    Sometimes assumptions are made which is mainly due to the OP not giving all the facts at the start and that's when things can get distorted and heated.

    Trouble is breeding is an emotive subject.

    You can advice and guide people but not all will listen sadly.:(

    (And as a pet owner you will see that I also supported your views on the cavalier breeder on the other thread.)
     
  10. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    From what I've seen, what tends to happen is someone asks if the dog has had the health tests for their breed, and the poster responds saying "Yes, they have been checked over by the vet"

    I understand there are people from all walks of life, but it sitll never ceases to amaze me how little research people continue to do, either when buying a puppy or having a litter.

    There is the old wives tale about first generation crosses being healthier - where both anecdotal and empirical evidence is now making it clear that many 1st generation crosses actually have MORE problems than their pedigree counterparts :(

    Then there's the belief that they look healthy, therefore they must be healthy - and with hip dysplasia and some eye conditions, nothing could be further from the truth :( Elbow Dysplasia I am told is usually serious - yet I know of dogs with high elbow scores who haven't had a day's lameness in their entire life - so the same could be said of elbows.

    Then there are all the 'recessive carrier status' for CEA, PRA, CNM, HC (some breeds) etc

    It's shocking actually that collectively some of the members on this forum know more than the majority of vets about health testing and associated results.

    None of this is a criticism of this original poster - it is normally the OP that mentions the "vet check" - which is more often associated with the puppies when they leave the breeder, and then repeated when they go to their new owners.

    There are stickies on the subject - but people still continue to post - and sometimes if can be very difficult to try and get the message across.

    I am also convinced that some of these posts appear for 'effect' rather than seriousness, and this could be why many of these posters never return to the thread rather than "been frightened off" - those that are determined in their actions always respond - even if it is to tell people to "get knotted" :(
     
  11. Cockerpoo lover

    Cockerpoo lover PetForums VIP

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    Yes I agree I am sure there are posters who post to cause a debate/argument.

    Not everyone has the intellectual capacity to research into breeding nor the computer skills and some are just following on from old school traditions.

    That's why I suppose a one fits all type of approach doesn't always work.


    When you can see someone has done some research and is on the right path than more often than not a solution/resolution is often found.

    Those who are not the type to gather info etc... are the ones that most ( not in all cases)people find it hard to explain and reason with

    All people with the knowledge can do is advise and guide but like I said it's when it gets too personal or a bombardment that I feel in a lot of cases has the opposite effect.
     
  12. Amethyst

    Amethyst PetForums VIP

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    Ultimately there is only a lot of confusion because people don't do any research before deciding to breed or buying a puppy.

    So many people now see having a litter as just a way of making money, nothing else ... nothing more. Health testing costs money an detracts form their profit, and profit is the motivating factor, not improving the health of the breed.

    There is more information than EVER before online about responsible breeding and health issues within the breed. Some people just don't want to know ... ignorance for many being bliss :rolleyes:
     
  13. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

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    This i totaly agree with.I also believe some honestly don't even know what is meant by health testing.Now if they have never heard of it how would they ask about it? I'm a lot older than most on here and as i said earlier i wouldn't have had a clue that health testing was something different to a check up by the vet.
    I guess it would be a great help if vets started to educate their clients when it comes to breeding.But i think a lot of vets are as ignorant as the next person.
     
  14. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    If this is referring to the thread I think, then health tests were mentioned several times, breed clubs were mentioned, and it was pointed out many times that they really needed to think twice about going ahead. I know I included the possibility of being sued if they hadn't made use of health tests that are readily available, and a pup does go on to develop a genetic condition that could easily have been prevented. And that is more likely to happen in the US than over here, where this person was posting from.

    Unfortunately, I think people will only listen if they want to, and some just don't want to listen, that thread was one of them.

    This forum is actually very polite in comparison to some, it's very rare that threads turn nasty or personal. But I don't see why we should have to feel we can't be honest and open about poor breeding practices on an open forum. If people post along those lines, they should be prepared to receive forthright answers.
     
  15. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

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    Yes its the same thread,and yes i know health testd were mentioned quite a few times.My point is,some people don't realise there is a difference between health tesing and just being checked over by a vet.And if they don't understand the difference they will take the advice being given to them the wrong way.
     
  16. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    I think enough information was posted for them to realise that going ahead without health testing was the wrong decision. If they couldn't work out from what was posted that going ahead and breeding was not the right thing to do, then they weren't going to stop no matter what information was posted.

    The problem is, where do you draw the line, people have to take resonsibility for what they're doing with their pets. They posted, got good advice about not going ahead, what more do they want? Do they want us to book them the genetic tests, mri scans etc, etc? They have a responsibility to their animals to do what is right for them, and that's what was advised. They then need to get off their butt and organise whatever health tests need doing, either by contacting the appropriate breed club, finding a mentor etc, or even holding their hands up on forum and asking, any one of us would have been pleased to offer further advice, but no, in this instance as in so many, they just carried on regardless and allowed their dogs to mate.

    I don't think this sort of person needs mollycoddling into the right decision, they need the truth, politely and firmly. It's exactly that sort of breeder that's contributing the most to the overflowing rescue problem, and yet they probably don't think that's the case at all, after all, they have homes lined up with family and friends. What happens when a friend moves away, splits from their partner and neither wants the puppy? Of course, that sort of thing never happens....... on wait, it happens all the time :(

    I think as has been said by a few, including me, some people will only listen to what they want to, and they didn't want to listen to the truth in this instance, as in many others, which makes me very sad.
     
  17. HannahKate

    HannahKate PetForums Senior

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    In response to the comment about vets having to be better educated I would actually say I have to disagree slightly. Vets have to know an awful lot of stuff about an awful lot of stuff. Yes they should know the existance of health tests and maybe those of particular relevance for particular breeds but personally I think that it is actually the breeders responsibility to know more about this in their own particular animals. If they are that serious about breeding and doing it properly then they should know about these things, but of course vets should be able to point out that specific tests may be required.
     
  18. Vets may also say stupid things like 'are you going to breed with her' or Have a litter from her!
    Mine did!:eek:
    There are some folk that think because the vet asked this that he/she/they are confirming that their dog is good enough to breed with!
    Never judge a book by it cover could apply her! a wet nose and a healthy coat COULD be hiding a multitude of faults!:D
     
  19. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

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    Its not about drawing the line or mollycoddling people,its about educating them in the right way.
    And for what its worth,those that don't go about that in the right manner are as bad as the irresponsible breeders they are condemning.imo
     
  20. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    As far as I could see, they were, and generally are educated in the right way, when they post on here asking for advice about breeding. If this person had genuinely wanted help with health testing, they would have asked. They didn't, they had their own ulterior motive, like so many, as rocco33 posted, some people are just selfish and no matter what, the will breed from their dogs despite all the good advice in the world. Sometimes, refreshingly, you get people who want to listen, and are willing to learn, which occasionally restores a bit of my faith in a large section of humanity.

    I'm not sure what you think is the right way, but nobody was really personally insulting, nor did anyone post anything wrong on that thread, it was very balanced overall. I think you're being a bit harsh in suggesting anyone who posted to advise against breeding is as bad as someone who will just breed no matter what good advice they're given, I'm slightly confused by that implication :confused:

    I could have posted:

    Oh well done then if you're going to breed anway, without health testing or any real knowledge, let's hope all the puppies are happy and healthy and live long lives, and that mummy and daddy do too.

    I chose to call them selfish, because that's exactly what it is, to put the life of your dogs at risk for no good reason other than to provide puppies for your family and friends, despite the fact that you are aware of health tests, and health problems within a breed, let's not forget, they'd already lost one dog too young. I'm also a selfish person, in many different ways, but choose not to be when it comes to dog breeding, I put the welfare of my dogs first.

    Sorry Janice, I'm not trying to be pedantic, but I can't honestly see where anyone posts wrongly on these type of threads on this forum. The response people get is informative, truthful, and up front when they ask about breeding. The information is at hand, should they want to ask questions, and some do, they can, people on here are honest with them. Really though, these questions should have been asked long before they post 'my dogs won't tie' etc, etc, etc.
     
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