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Half a grand later...

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by shadowmare, Apr 6, 2017.


  1. shadowmare

    shadowmare The dog doesn't bite, me on the other hand...

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    we still don't know what's wrong with Axel's rear leg! :(
    Axel went for his xrays this morning. I was so nervous the whole day at work that I couldn't even eat my lunch - was literally nauseous with worry! Finally got a phone call an hour ago with the vet saying that they didn't find anything wrong with his hips, knees or pelvis. No arthritis either. They also checked his cruciate ligaments etc but nothing wrong there either. That's the good news. Bad news - if all of this is ruled out, then wth is wrong with his leg? Something is still clicking (will ask the vet if he heard it) and after 2 sessions of lazer therapy + 2 sessions of hydrotherapy + 5 weeks of on lead walks, he is still hoping/ limping when he's at a canter pace.
    Another annoying thing is that I payed for the physio myself (£180) and now that I asked the vet on the phone about doing more physio, he said that would be good. I then asked if I could get a referral but he said they don't do that?:confused: he said they can send the history and the x rays to my choice of physio (they did that when i self-referred to one last month) but they don't do actual referrals... but then, if I can't get a referral from their surgery I can't claim the cost of treatment through the insurance :( A physio session is £30 and hydrotherapy is £25...
    No real point in the thread apart from me having a wee moan of desperation. Axel is getting more and more frustrated with each day without proper exercise and trick training is doing nothing for him... This whole mystical lameness thing is really exhausting. And I feel like my money is melting away.

    200w_d.gif
     
  2. foxiesummer

    foxiesummer PetForums VIP

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    On Supervet last night there was a greyhound with a mysterious limp. Turned out it had corns.
     
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  3. shadowmare

    shadowmare The dog doesn't bite, me on the other hand...

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    It would be nice if it was something minor like that... I had a look at his paw so many times now. But I think if it was something to do with the paw he would be limping all the time and not just sometimes...
     
  4. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    I did have something similar with Kobi a few years back although it was a front leg, he was limping badly, and rest and anti inflamms didn't do much, they xrayed and took a lot of them and could find nothing at all. Although they seemed to think the pain response pointed to the shoulder. We ended up having an ortho specialist appointment where they scanned him, and even put the camera in the joint and still nothing. It was put down to some kind of soft tissue injury. The only thing that finally worked was about 6/8 weeks of rest and anti inflammatories. One thing I did find with him, that there seemed to be a very minor improvement but as soon as they did any type of examination with manipulations and extensions it seemed to cause the limp to be worse again. I know soft tissue can take a long time to resolve.

    There is something called bursitis which is an inflammation of the bursae dogs have 10 in the hind legs the reduce friction between the moving parts like tendons ligaments and muscles or cushion the effect of pressure. Dogs have up to 11 in the front legs and 10 in the hind legs. I did wonder when I found the condition is that might have been the cause of Kobis problems. I did find this when Kobi had his issues about tendons skeletal muscles and ligament issues, which talks about bursae bursitis and other problems.

    http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/saortho/chapter_70/70mast.htm

    http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/saortho/chapter_04/04mast.htm

    Don't know if there may be anything or interest or that could give you any ideas there?
     
  5. catz4m8z

    catz4m8z PetForums VIP

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    Is your vet an orthopeadic specialist?? if not it might be worthwhile asking for a referral.
    With Hannah it took alot of painkillers, weeks of rest and 2 lots of x-rays and my regular vets still couldnt diagnose the problem. It took the ortho guy maybe 5 minutes to confirm she had LP!:rolleyes:
     
  6. lullabydream

    lullabydream PetForums VIP

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    Bursitis in humans can be horrid, and is usually diagnosed through symptoms, and things like x rays, mri ruling other things out..so SDH may be on to something there.

    Basically in humans, the more you do, the more it will be a problem, even nice low impact sports or activities can affect it, so maybe so in dogs, without reading SDH's links. Its all to do with repeative movements, making it worse as far as I know.
     
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  7. Lurcherlad

    Lurcherlad PetForums VIP

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    I had Bursitis diagnosed in my foot between 2 joints under the ball of my foot eventually after i was told it was probably Mortens Nuroma (despite knowing exactly when I injured the tendon cos I was kneeling down kissing Jack when it went twang!) and told them so. MN is apparently never caused by trauma but is a progressive problem.

    It presented at first as a bruised response to a cramp but got more and more painful. It would come and go, sometimes there when resting, there most of the time when walking (felt like walking on a pebble) but got progressively painful if on my feet for long periods - causing me to shorten my gait to "protect" it or hold my foot off the ground.

    I had several sessions of physio - no change.

    Referred to podiatrist - stretching exercises and insoles to relieve pressure.

    An x-ray and ultrasound - which eventually gave the diagnosis - Bursitis following trauma to the tendon. Basically a swelling, causing pain in the nerves and surrounding tissues.

    Early on I used painkillers and anti-iflammatories - with mild relief, so gave up.

    It has taken more than 8 months to get to the point where I think it is healing and most days now I have long periods with no discomfort. Today I've been on my feet for several hours and it's sore and throbbing.

    The point of all this waffling is to explain that it's hard to diagnose and can take months to heal completely when there will be no sign of it at all forever - if that makes sense? I've still a way to go, I think.

    So maybe Axel has Bursitis?

    Perhaps a gel boot would give relief?

    Soft insoles with support around the sore spot really helps me.

    Will insurance pay for an ultrasound of his foot?
     
  8. cbcdesign

    cbcdesign PetForums VIP

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    That is precisely what I was thinking in Axels case. maybe a strain of some kind that will heal over time. Xrays can only show so much.
     
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  9. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    That's what made me wonder if it was what caused Kobis, because as soon as he was examined or they messed with it in any way any improvement there had been as regards a bit of reduction to the severity of the limp it got worse again. The only thing that fixed his in the end was weeks of rest, he also wasn't allowed to go upstairs and obviously shouldn't jump on things either. I was supposed to only take him out to toilet on lead, but he was going nuts especially when the others went out. In the end I asked the specialist if I could literally walk him a few houses up to the corner cross over and come back, they said that would be OK, he then was much better, it wasn't much but it did the trick as he must have felt like he had been taken out even if it was for a very short slow amble and a bit of a sniff about.

    I could very find very little about bursitis in dogs on the internet lots about humans. The only real thing I did find was that link which is from a book on small animal orthopaedics I thin uni of pensylvannia put on line for their veterinary students. They do even say on there

    In humans and in horses, inflammatory conditions of bursae are well-known clinical entities. For example, in humans, bursitis of the subdeltoid or subacromial bursae is seen, an inflammation that is almost always the result of a lesion involving neighboring structures, such as a strained tendon. Another example is the inflammation in the intertubercularis bursa in horses, which is almost always associated with sprain of the biceps brachii muscle. In many cases, there is little pain associated with sprain of a tendon until the adjacent bursa is involved, since the latter structure is abundantly supplied by vessels and nerves.

    Bursae are small and are associated anatomically with other structures. For these reasons, specific diagnosis of bursitis is difficult, and few reports exist in the veterinary literature. It is obvious, however, that bursal problems exist, and the veterinary diagnostician should be aware of the normal anatomical sites of bursae, the pathologic changes associated with bursae, and the specific bursal problems that have been reported. It is obvious that bursitis can be diagnosed more frequently and more accurately than has been the case thus far.

    So it does tally with what I found there seems to be lots of info on humans and horses but little info on dogs having the condition. The info and treatment I found as regards to humans was exactly what you have said, and it seemed only rest and leaving it be solved Kobis issues finally.
     
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  10. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    Given you can hear clicking my bet would be a torn meniscus. Doesn't show on x-rays. Would need a CT scan or arthroscopy I think to diagnose - I would ask for an orthopaedic referral.
     
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  11. shadowmare

    shadowmare The dog doesn't bite, me on the other hand...

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    The clicking isn't coming from the knee - it's definitely from the bottom of leg/ foot. It only comes at the moment when he sets the foot on the ground.The noise also cannot be recreated by manually manipulating his leg. I'm guessing that if it was meniscus he would be actually lame though? Because he walks and trots fine (maybe just a slightly shorter stride on the left when walking). He also seems to be fine galloping most of the time. It's only at some random moments, especially when he's running at a slower pace, that he looks a bit more careful how he lands with his rear. It's not even bunny hopping. It actually almost looks a very clumsy movement...

    Thanks everyone. It was the ortho surgeon who was looking at the x rays. They did all the x rays and manually manipulated the leg while Axel was still knocked out with the GA. No clicking noises, no grinding, good range of motion, hips, patella, CCL etc all cleared off the list of possibilities... they gave him anti-inflamatories and we got an appointment in two weeks. We'll just see how he gets on with the meds and then take it from there... Fingers crossed.
     
  12. EmCHammer

    EmCHammer PetForums VIP

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    My boy was lame and x rays showed nothing they thought he might have OCD at first. He got referred to an ortho specialist who saw the problem at right away .. after mri and ct scans ... avulsion fracture of the shoulder and extremely inflammed biceps tendon. (Tendonitus) who would have ever guessed that !

    I won't lie it's been a long and expensive year trying to get to the bottom of it and surgery etc .. soft tissue type injuries take forever to heal.

    I'm suprised an ortho vet doesn't refer to physio it must come up a the time and they surely are great believers in physio and hydro
     
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  13. 2Hounds

    2Hounds PetForums VIP

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    Are you sure they havn't already, the physio/hydro centre should've requested your vets referral i.e vet give OK to go ahead with treatment & sends any relevant history before they work on your dog.
    Depends on your insurer what they cover, physio often comes out of vet fees pot and hydro complimentary but you'd need to check details on own policy.

    I wouldn't think 2 laser & 2 hydro would be enough yet to see improvement. Difficult when cause still unknown.
     
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