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Going to the vets today :(

Discussion in 'Cat Chat' started by malibu, May 26, 2010.


  1. malibu

    malibu Guest

    I'm getting really concerned now, my previous thread explained about my queen yesterday but will re-cap incase anyone missed it.
    Yesterday morning, I woke up to find one of my 3 kittens gone, Tia had taken her into the celler where it is very cold, I brought her straight back up where Tia started feeding and snuggling her.
    Last night I put them in the spare bedroom and Tia managed to get out (our door is quite easy to push open so all Tia had to do was lean against it and it would open (we have no other rooms we could put them in) and at 5am I heard the kitten's crying :( Tia had taken them all and placed them under my daughters wordrobe, I returned them to where they normally are (the vet told me to who I rang) and 4 times in the last 30mins Tia has returned with one off them and tried to do it again. I'm gonna take them to the vets today because I'm getting concerned that Tia is gonna damage one of them, as shes constantly dragging them around :( Please help, I need some serious advice as I can't get to the vets until later as they are closed :(
     
  2. Tje

    Tje Banned

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    I left this reply for you yesterday.

    In your shoes, yes I would be worried, I'd take action immediately.

    This isn’t that uncommon when a queen has access to a lot of space. It can have a terrible (deadly!) outcome if she starts trailing the kittens around the house. As you say, the cellar is cold, and a kitten would die if left there unattended for any length of time, but you also have to think about things like the possibility the queen could dump a kitten on a high window sill or high ledge somewhere in the house. I would limit the queen to one room, with her litter tray in there. If you feel she needs out to stretch her legs, then you let her out (under supervision) a couple of times a day. Incidentally, limiting the space available to the queen is also the advice that most vets will give you when queens start trailing kittens around.


    This advice still stands.

    You need to restrict the space available to her… if you don’t she’ll end up (inadvertently or deliberately) killing one or more of these kittens. If the bedroom door won’t shut properly, then put a simple latch/hook type lock on the outside if the door, or move her into a downstairs toilet, or a bathroom, or any room where the door does lock. Or get her a decnt sized kittening-pen and lock her in that.

    On Friday of last week I was contacted by the shelter and asked to get in touch with a woman whose own mother cat was displaying similar behaviours as yours … I have been to visit her twice and spoke with her on the phone a few times, told her too to restrict the cat to one room…but she had all sorts of reasons why she couldn’t limit the cat to one room, she felt that was cruel, the mother cat miauwed when locked in a spare bedroom, etc etc. Anyway, I got woken by a phone call at 5am this morning to tell me two kittens are dead and the other 2 are seriously cold and mother now won’t even lie with them or let them drink from her. I doubt these kittens here will still be alive by the times the vets surgery opens.

    This could very well happen with your cat too… you really need to nip this in the bud before it gets even worse than it is now. The next thing you know, she won’t just be trailing the kittens all over the place, she’ll be outright rejecting them... and believe me, bottle feeding, toileting, cleaning, weaning, litter training and socializing motherless kittens is a lot tougher than working out how to keep a dodgey door shut.
     
  3. malibu

    malibu Guest

    Thanks, thats why I'm taking her to the vets as Tia has now started crying even when shes in the same room as us, i've put the kittens in my bedroom with me and Tia still comes up and sits with them. Hopefully the vet can check to see if anything is wrong with them, the reason I can't put a lock on is because its army accomodation and they won't allow it, but I am going to buy a kittening pen today from the pet shop. Thanks for your advice.
     
  4. malibu

    malibu Guest

    She is sat cleaning them at the moment and they are still drinking from her, so il get a pen today and also take her the vets at 10 and see what they can suggest also
     
  5. Matrix/Logan

    Matrix/Logan PetForums VIP

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    I would get a large crate, big enough for a litter tray, bed and food and water. Cover it so it is like a cosy den for her and leave her in it with the kittens to bond properly. She will be more relaxed as she is obviously moving them cos she feels threatened or it is too busy where they are and she is looking for an ideal quiet spot, all this i think has prevented her from so far bonding properly with them by the sounds of things.

    Good luck. X
     
  6. Tje

    Tje Banned

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    You really don’t need to go to the expense of a kittening-pen (though it is thre ideal soultion)… just work out anyway to keep the door shut in that one room (a bit of rope and a bit of imagination and I’m sure somehow you could keep it shut ) duct tape can also be put to a 1001 uses, or some chicken wire duct-taped taped to the front of the door would suffice too). Or even the downstairs loo/family bathroom/big walk in closets… anywhere she can’t get out of, and preferably somewhere with no high places to jump up on to (otherwise kittens will be deposited on high places, and will fall to their death or die of exposure). If you do have wardrobes or anything high in that room… just make sure you fill the space on top so she cant get up there (empty cardboard boxes will do) and also watch out for the window sill…. That’s another place these mothers leave kittens. And due to draughts (and the fall to the ground) it’s not a good place for them to dump kittens. If you can’t “block” the windowsill in some way… then leave plenty of pillows directly under it. I find double sided tape stuck to the windowsill means mum wont climb up there, so can’t dump kittens there. Cats generally hate the feel of sticky tape.

    But I do agree with a visit to the vet, there may be some underlying reason for her behavior, so it’s best to get it checked out.

    Best of luck, and

    Keep us posted
     
  7. billyboysmammy

    billyboysmammy PetForums VIP

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    Hiya hun

    Thought i would put your post from yesterday together with this one for ease.

    Its quite common for queens to end up being fairly crappy mums. Dumping and leaving kittens in all sorts of unusual places! Sometimes its a kitten trailed out that was super attatched when feeding and they drag them along via their boobs lol, other times mum is unhappy with her current hiding spot and wants to change. Some mums want to do this religiously and it in itself can become dangerous as they leave kittens behind or forget where they have put them.

    I agree getting her checked over at the vets is a good idea just to make sure there is no underlying cause.


    Some things struck me straight away though from your situation.

    1 - litter tray is a LONG way away from her nest. The only area for her to toilet is at least 2 flights of stairs away from her (from bedrooms to cellar), thats much to long a distance for her to be comfortable. Queens do not like leaving their kittens and being so far away it means she has to leave her kittens for longer than she is comfortable with. A mum cat would naturally move them to be nearer to the resources for safety reasons.

    2 - under the wardrobe = dark, enclosed, quiet, hidden = safe! safe in a cats eyes anyway. She moved them ALL there so thats obviously where she felt they would be safest.


    This is what i would do in your situation.

    * Designate 1 room, use a lock (bathroom door locks are £0.99 from homebase add a couple of screws and you have a secure door!) on the bedroom door so that it cant be pushed open.
    * remove any high shelving/block off with boxes etc to prevent her leaving kittens on high up places (trust my they do do it! I once found a kitten on top of my fridge!).
    * provide 3 large cardboard boxes and cover each with a blanket. Place in corners or dark areas. Let her choose which to use. Pop kittens in room on a blanket and let her do the moving (just sit quietly and watch, only intervene if she tries to take them high up).
    * put the litter tray in this room. VERY important
    * put food and water in the room (i am wondering if they crying isnt for more food too, queens need a huge amount of food to produce enough milk to support their kittens).

    Now if that fails and you think she may be abandoning the kittens (you will know if it is failing by weighing the kittens at the same time every day. weight loss = failing). You will need to get a large dog pen. The pen will only be suitable until the kittens are approx 3 weeks but it will have just enough room for food, bed and litter tray. mum does not leave the pen under almost all circumstances. Its a sort of forced situation into getting her to do her duties. It usually only takes a couple of days for them to get to grip with things and bond properly.

    Finally... be prepared for the worst. Be prepared to have to take over the feeding and raising of the litter, have milk and bottles and syringes ready just incase.

    From what you have said its not that she doesnt "want" to mother her babies, she just doesnt feel safe where she is and is a bit forgetful too! ;)

    Good luck! x
     
  8. lizward

    lizward PetForums VIP

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    The vet isn't going to be of any help here. There are two possible solutions and both are simple. 1. Put her in one room with everything she needs or 2. Let her take the kittens where she wants to take them.

    Liz
     
  9. Elmstar

    Elmstar PetForums VIP

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    I agree, we've got one really awkward Queen and she has to dictate where she wants them otherwise she won't even feed them!
     
  10. Tje

    Tje Banned

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    I agree that the vet probably won’t be much help with the “trailing the kittens” problem, he/she will give the same advice as has already been given, i.e. limit her space. But maybe there is an underlying health reason why the mother is being a bit off? It certainly can’t do any harm to see a vet. I once had a mother cat with an infection that I didn’t notice myself, so there was a reason for her rejecting the kittens. Or maybe as someone suggested to me this morning, that the OP possibly would just feel happier hearing the same advice from a man in a white coat with letters after his name. I think a visit to the vet can do no harm, and may just have a result. It never hurts to have a lot of folks taking the same stance on kittening issues.

    The “let her take the kittens where she wants to” solution, could be a solution… it won’t be the first time I have let a mother cat “dictate” to me where she deems a suitable nesting spot, and I have gone along with these mother cats, providing their choice of nesting spot was a suitable one . I think the trouble with this particular mother is, she is putting the kittens in unsuitable spots (cold damp cellar), and leaving them there alone for prolonged periods of time.

    Good point BBM about the litter tray being 2 floors away from the nest area… definitely not good… at 4 days old I find 2 meters away from the nest more than far enough, lol. I also get the same feeling as you that this mother cat is not so much not interested, more she is looking for somewhere quiet, peaceful, snug and safe to raise her kittens… and the very fact that the bedroom door doesn’t shut properly could be the very thing that’s irking her and forcing her to wander. The mother cat’s thinking could be “if I can get out so easily, prey can come in with just as much ease”. I’m sure we've both had mother cats who have relaxed totally when they’ve been confined to a small space. Its like “ahhhhhh, thanks for locking me up, by removing my choices you’ve removed my dilemma’s, now I can settle down and be a mother”.
     
  11. malibu

    malibu Guest

    Been to the vets, Tia has a bit of a temperature but she said with the kittens use another box but leave it all intact and just make a hole big enough for Tia to get in and out of, and then to put it where Tia wants to go (which seems to be my daughters bedroom) so the advice I was given by you all has been excellent. Thank you x
     
  12. Aurelia

    Aurelia PetForums VIP

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    I hope you take the advice as well. These ladies are very experienced so there is no reason to disregard any of it.

    I fear you will end up with dead kittens if you don't act in the ways you have been advised.
     
    Tje likes this.
  13. kittiegirl

    kittiegirl PetForums Member

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    Good luck and try not to worry too much :)
     
  14. malibu

    malibu Guest

    I would never disregard any advice I am given when it comes to my cats and I will always take on board what is said to me and act on it, which I have. My kittens are currently snuggled up to their mum. The vet weighed them and said they are all perfectly healthy. We have 2 boys but she isn't sure about the ginger one.
     
  15. malibu

    malibu Guest

    Your advice was fantastic so thank you, we had to see the vet anyway as our dog needed her microchip, and rabies vaccination. They also gave Tia her rabies vaccination (they said it was fine for her to have it, and they both go back next month for bloods) so it made sense to speak to the vet about our concerns at the same time :)
     
  16. Tje

    Tje Banned

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    Not meaning to nit-pick, and I have sat on my hands trying not to type this, but I really feel I have to, even if it does smack of "told you so".

    If you had taken the advice on board that I gave you yesterday, then your queen wouldn’t have been able to go on the wander again with her kittens last night. I know the door to that particular bedroom doesn’t close properly – but I am guessing Aurelia felt a similar degree of frustration that I was feeling, that you weren’t taking advice on board and that your queen was on the wander again, and the kittens were being put at risk again. If that bedroom door doesn’t shut properly, then either fix the door or put her in another bedroom. “Restricting her movement” is not exactly rocket science, it’s an easy thing to do. I also didn't understand the whole thing of "her litter tray can only go in the cellar, it can't go anywhere else". When we have a mother cat and kittens, we sometimes have to put the necessities (like food, water and litter tray) in a place we'd rather not have them.

    It is frustrating to give advice one day and be confronted with the exact same problem the next day. It's only natural to assume the advice given has not been acted upon. It’s especially frustrating when one has reason to believe that the problem at hand could result in the death of one or more kittens, and that the particular problem is a very easy one to remedy.

    I am glad your kittens are a healthy weight and are doing well.... you've been lucky. The woman I mentioned earlier (with a similar wandering-with-kittens queen), now has 3 dead kittens and 1 totally rejected one. Deaths in kittens are sometimeas inevitable, these were easily avoidable.
     
  17. billyboysmammy

    billyboysmammy PetForums VIP

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    completely agree with the whole post but that bit made me LOL. Ive had litter trays in my bedroom, and there is NOTHING smellier than a lactating foster queen still adjusting to a new diet (remember alot of the time i have no background on my queens). Its an absoloutly eye watering, nose hair dissolving, throat gagging sort of smell. But you put up with it, you have a handy supply of essential oil air freshener, and lots and lots of poo bags to take the offending stinkies away!

    Its disgusting to think of, but sometimes its absoloutly essential.
     
  18. Aurelia

    Aurelia PetForums VIP

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    Yes Tje, I did feel exactly that. You put it more sensitively than I could have though :lol:

    The door to our room doesn't shut properly, so we took the door handle off and threaded some of that strapping you get for bag handles. We tie this to something if we need to, though it seems to keep the door closed simply by wedging a bit in the frame.

    I would do anything for my girl to keep her and her kitties safe.


    BBM ~ Try a fresh air globe :D I can't smell anything that I shouldn't with this baby going. Not to mention the fact Rilly likes to sit by it sniffing the lovely cool fresh air that blows out of it :lol: It's one of those JML ones.
     
  19. Tje

    Tje Banned

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    BBM, I feel your pain - I smell what you smell, and sweet baby jesus, it sure aint pleasant. :eek:

    My own cats’ poo’s have never smelled of roses… but I think many of these rescue cats have been on a diet of chicken tikka massala, picked onion crisps & lager before they come to us.

    On the plus side… I used to hate public toilets and toilets on planes… then I started rescuing, and you know what, those toilets don’t seem quite so bad anymore, lol.

    Aurelia, as my mother would say, necessity is the father of invention!! I’m not a creative person by nature, but we learn to be with our pets. We have little choice :eek:.

    I’m going to pinch your “remove door handle, insert strap off bag” idea :thumbup: … there was another post on the forum not long ago, similar story, they also weren’t allowed to screw into the doors in a rented property but their mother cat was going on the wander daily with the kittens… but removing a door handle is easy, and it can be replaced, and no screwing is needed. See, I would just have duct-taped the door shut… but I am the queen of duct-tape. I can fix everything with a roll (or 5) of heavy duty duct tape. Lol. (I wont mention the hours I spend with a turpentine soaked cloth removing the tape residue, hehe)
     
  20. Aurelia

    Aurelia PetForums VIP

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    I'm the same with brown parcel tape :eek: Our room is like a working class cardboard city, in that it is elevated to working class because of the posh shiny brown tape all over it. :lol:

    I even tape all around the drainer on my bath so I can fill the water right up and float in it up to my neck :lol:
     
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