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What to look for when getting a Pedigree Cat

118K views 230 replies 29 participants last post by  asper 
#1 · (Edited)
There have been a number of threads lately, both here and on other social media sites from people buying their first pedigree and the difficulties they have faced.

We are all capable of making a mistake, but unlike when you buy a TV that breaks after a week (which is very annoying but you can usually get a replacement and no emotion is spent) when you involve a living being, which you fall in love with very quickly, it can result in utter devastation, and a huge financial and emotional cost. I should know, its happened to me twice, once when I was seeking my first pedigree and fell into the clutches of a BYB and once when I really should have known better ....

So I've started this thread because I'd like breeders and people who have bought pedigree cats to discuss the best way to find a reputable breeder, things to keep you eyes peeled for, and what specific questions you should ask.

The first thing that becomes obvious with a lot of people is they don't do enough research. However where do you start? If you are totally outside of 'The Cat Fancy' it can be impossible to know where to begin.
Breeders and those-in-the-know will tell you to approach the breed clubs or the registry. But when I started looking I'd never even heard of the GCCF, even though I'd read a number of books about cats. At the time I didn't have access to the internet, so I did what most people do, I looked in a paper and went to a breeder who was advertising in there. This was a mistake (see above).

In the UK there are four registries:
GCCF (Governing Council of the Cat Fancy) http://www.gccfcats.org/
TICA (The International Cat Association) http://www.tica-ew.org/
FIFE (Fédération Internationale Féline) http://www.felisbritannica.com/
CFA (Cat Fancy Association) http://cfaeurope.org/en

The GCCF is the only one based solely in the UK and is the most commonly used by UK breeders, the others are international registries, with TICA being the most commonly used of the three behind GCCF in the UK.
(NB Breeders: Please could you comment and put links to registries within your own countries please)

These registries will have links to help you find a breeder, a club for the breed you are interested in and have guidelines to help you select a breeder and chose a kitten.

Make sure you understand which health tests your chosen breed should have and ask your breeder for details of their cats status. Make sure you see proof, no reputable breeder will be offended if asked to show clearance certificates. In the UK Langfords are the most commonly used genetic testing service, this link shows you the breeds they have genetic tests for, just click on the breeds name and the tests available are listed.
http://www.langfordvets.co.uk/diagn...eneral-info-breeders/genetic-diseases-and-cat
Some UK breeders will use other Labs, the other most often used is UC Davis, in the USA. https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/cat/

Other tests such as heart scans to check for HCM are done in a number of breeds. HCM is a complex disease, and the DNA test will not guarantee the cat is free from HCM, so beware of a breeder who claims it does. Note that heart scans must be performed by a specialist cardiologist not the local practice vet.

Make sure you understand what paperwork you should receive when you buy your kitten. As a minimum you should get a pedigree sheet (the family tree), and the vaccination card showing what vaccines were given and when. You should also receive the registration document. This is printed by the registration body and lists the kittens pedigree name, its parents, its date of birth and its registration number. While some breeders retain these until proof of neutering most will give these to you on collection of the kitten. This link will show you what the paperwork should look like https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/pedigree-papers.454267/

Lots of breeders also get their kittens microchipped so you should receive the paperwork for that too. Most breeders will give you a pack with details of worming, fleaing and feeding. It may be a little booklet or just a sheet of paper but it is important. Show it to your vet so they can put a note of the dates and products used on your kittens record. The kitten may or may not be neutered prior to you collecting him/her depending on the breeders practice.

Things to watch for when viewing kittens:
Dirty bottoms/eyes/noses/ears
Nervous kittens who don't relax and start to play after a few minutes of your arrival.
Nervous adult cats.
Dirty litter trays / feeding areas.
Excessively bad smells when a kitten/cat uses the litter tray.
Kittens/adults that don't want to be handled.
Breeders who are reluctant to show off their cats.
Kittens that are brought into the room from elsewhere (that you don't get to see)
Breeders that are keen to get a purchase that day.
Breeders who claim they health test but can't or won't show you the paperwork.
Breeders who avoid answering the question.
 
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#122 ·
I'm really finding it hard to check out a breeder here.

Anyway, I spoke to a high profile breeder with some champion cats (Siberians). Member of the original Sib club, registration listed on website etc. I though "oh fantastic , just have to wait til the kittens are ready now". Then I did some digging and found some really disturbing info. Information about ill kittens being sold, 1 or 2 later died, extremely poor breeding conditions etc. Also had a chat with some really nice people who corroborated this. Also legal cases that the breeder lost etc.

Before that, I'd spoken to the GCCF who said there was no current suspension vs the breeder. I asked "well how about the past, any fines, supsnesions, or disciplinary", bearing in mind I even had complaint numbers. I was told that this information is not released to the general public, very resistant to any further attempts at clarification. That was rather confusing because there are lists of who was fined what on the GCCF website. But the breeder in question wasn't listed as disciplined. I then had an email from the GCCF (another person) who said there was no record of discplinary proceedings vs that breeder and hasn't been suspended now or in the past. They do go on and say that the breeder hasn't registered kittens with them for quite a long time and that they could not comment on the standards of the breeder's breeding. Which made me wonder, because the breeder is very active right now with kittens described as registered.

So I am wondering... how do I make sense of this and reconcile apparent differences of facts? Has the breeder moved to TICA OR FIFe? Was the breeder told "don't register any new kittens here, and we won't ban you?" Does the GCCF have any real powers beyond acting as a database? I am told the breeder was rather aggressive vs the GCCF who are reluctant to enter "attack dog" mode. I really can't understand why GCCF staff are making contradictory statements.

Now ok, if this was some shady backyard breeder I'd expect strange stuff. But its one with big champion cats etc. And well recognised people issuing warnings about the breeder.
Should I expect to get clarification from GCCF if I go back to them? Will TICA provide me with answers? Or will I get nowhere? haha
Seriously though, can anybody help me with how GCCF and TICA etc handle these matters. And what should I conclude in my search for a kitten?
 
#123 ·
There is no substitute for visiting the breeder's home and observing your intended in the home they should be living in. Are the kittens running about and interacting? Do they come with kitten insurance? Where is the mother? Will they let you touch unvaccinated kittens (no!)? Do they check you out as much and want to know how you will care for their precious kittens? I had so many hoops to jump to get my hands on my special Burmese kitten, and rightly so. Our Maine Coon boy's breeder stays in touch and visits us a couple of times each year. Four years down the line we still call her for advice once in a while, especially about things like bathing. These are great breeders! Personal recommendation is key and that can take time. My Snowshoes are both rehomed girls but their original breeder is someone I knew and whose home I had visited to see what beautifully natured cats they were. Certificates and champions mean nothing (she says, with an Imperial G Ch in the kitchen). The clean, fresh, welcoming, happy home of bouncing kittens is everything.
 
#126 ·
Registration Prices with Felis Britannica (FIFe)

All kittens must be registered with FB, there is no ability to declare kittens.

Litter from FB parents £7.50
Litter from FB dam only £10

Then every kitten must have a pedigree @ £10 for a 4 generation or £20 for a 5 generation pedigree.

Import registration

£15 from another FIFe member (as individual member i.e country keeps their own pedigree book)
£25 from another Registry body.
 
#128 ·
I really can't understand why GCCF staff are making contradictory statements.
I'm quoting this snippet, as I had to giggle - none of us can understand why GCCF make the contradictory statements they do.

In relation to the rest of your post, I'm not sure how much information GCCF can or can't give out beyond the information already on the suspension lists. I would imagine the disciplinary matters are private, as they would be in all organisations.

It is possible that breeders can move between registries - I am dual registered with GCCF and TICA due to the availability of studs - so it's not unheard of but I would question why someone registers with one registry for years and suddenly switches to another.

If you're in any doubt over the breeder, don't buy from them. There are plenty of long term or 'big name' breeders that shouldn't be breeding, that don't have good breeding practices, or that don't breed to breed standard.

I don't think you'll get anywhere with the registries, neither have much power over breeders and are, predominantly, as you said; databases.
 
#131 ·
There is no substitute for visiting the breeder's home and observing your intended in the home they should be living in. Are the kittens running about and interacting? Do they come with kitten insurance? Where is the mother? Will they let you touch unvaccinated kittens (no!)? Do they check you out as much and want to know how you will care for their precious kittens? I had so many hoops to jump to get my hands on my special Burmese kitten, and rightly so. Our Maine Coon boy's breeder stays in touch and visits us a couple of times each year. Four years down the line we still call her for advice once in a while, especially about things like bathing. These are great breeders! Personal recommendation is key and that can take time. My Snowshoes are both rehomed girls but their original breeder is someone I knew and whose home I had visited to see what beautifully natured cats they were. Certificates and champions mean nothing (she says, with an Imperial G Ch in the kitchen). The clean, fresh, welcoming, happy home of bouncing kittens is everything.
Thanks. Good advice Hestia. I've bought moggies, registered, unregistered before now. This time I wanted to be thorough but now I'm scratching my head.

I'm quoting this snippet, as I had to giggle - none of us can understand why GCCF make the contradictory statements they do.

In relation to the rest of your post, I'm not sure how much information GCCF can or can't give out beyond the information already on the suspension lists. I would imagine the disciplinary matters are private, as they would be in all organisations.

It is possible that breeders can move between registries - I am dual registered with GCCF and TICA due to the availability of studs - so it's not unheard of but I would question why someone registers with one registry for years and suddenly switches to another.

If you're in any doubt over the breeder, don't buy from them. There are plenty of long term or 'big name' breeders that shouldn't be breeding, that don't have good breeding practices, or that don't breed to breed standard.

I don't think you'll get anywhere with the registries, neither have much power over breeders and are, predominantly, as you said; databases.
These Sibs aren't cheap, especially vs the fantastic cats I've had in the past. A long time ago, when I've bought crosses/unregistered and the like I've always thought "why not, its not some big, mercenary money making operation". But when they're asking 1000 (more or less) for Sibs I've starting thinking "I don't want to support kitten farms" etc

Registered with who? Are they advertising as GCCF? Or just as 'Registered'? BTW I looked at the adverts for Siberians on Pets4Homes and was shocked at the prices some people are asking, and I see most of the most expensive kittens are TICA registered rather than GCCF. I do know of some breeders (not Siberian) who simply moved registry when they got into trouble at the GCCF.

Information on the GCCF website is only the current suspensions, and the office staff are very pressed at present and struggling to keep up with the basic stuff let along queries.
Yes, I think the activity I was talking about would be in the "expired" category now.
 
#129 ·
<snip>

I then had an email from the GCCF (another person) who said there was no record of discplinary proceedings vs that breeder and hasn't been suspended now or in the past. They do go on and say that the breeder hasn't registered kittens with them for quite a long time and that they could not comment on the standards of the breeder's breeding. Which made me wonder, because the breeder is very active right now with kittens described as registered.
<snip>
Registered with who? Are they advertising as GCCF? Or just as 'Registered'? BTW I looked at the adverts for Siberians on Pets4Homes and was shocked at the prices some people are asking, and I see most of the most expensive kittens are TICA registered rather than GCCF. I do know of some breeders (not Siberian) who simply moved registry when they got into trouble at the GCCF.

Information on the GCCF website is only the current suspensions, and the office staff are very pressed at present and struggling to keep up with the basic stuff let along queries.
 
#130 ·
Anyway, I spoke to a high profile breeder with some champion cats (Siberians). Member of the original Sib club, registration listed on website etc. I though "oh fantastic , just have to wait til the kittens are ready now". Then I did some digging and found some really disturbing info. Information about ill kittens being sold, 1 or 2 later died, extremely poor breeding conditions etc. Also had a chat with some really nice people who corroborated this. Also legal cases that the breeder lost etc.
Beware the backstabbers …. Any breeder who has been breeding for any length of time, particularly if they are successful at shows will fall victim to the jealousy of others. When this happens rumours start, many of which are false. Just because someone tells you that someone has disease in their cattery, that cats have died, that they have been taken to court doesn't mean this has actually happened. If they did end up in court, this would be recorded somewhere. Instead visit the breeder, keep your eyes and ears open. If something isn't right then walk.

They do go on and say that the breeder hasn't registered kittens with them for quite a long time and that they could not comment on the standards of the breeder's breeding. Which made me wonder, because the breeder is very active right now with kittens described as registered.
The first thing to remember is that the GCCF aren't the be all and end all of cat registration in the UK. There are in fact four official registration bodies in the UK, and a breeder may register their cats with any one of these bodies.

Has the breeder moved to TICA OR FIFe? Was the breeder told "don't register any new kittens here, and we won't ban you?"
No registery makes offers like this to people on disciplinary. You either get fined and suspended, or banned, or you win your case.
 
#132 ·
Beware the backstabbers …. Any breeder who has been breeding for any length of time, particularly if they are successful at shows will fall victim to the jealousy of others. When this happens rumours start, many of which are false. Just because someone tells you that someone has disease in their cattery, that cats have died, that they have been taken to court doesn't mean this has actually happened. If they did end up in court, this would be recorded somewhere. Instead visit the breeder, keep your eyes and ears open. If something isn't right then walk.

The first thing to remember is that the GCCF aren't the be all and end all of cat registration in the UK. There are in fact four official registration bodies in the UK, and a breeder may register their cats with any one of these bodies.

No registery makes offers like this to people on disciplinary. You either get fined and suspended, or banned, or you win your case.
Good point. I know breeders fall out. Thats why I tried my best with due dilligence. Sib breeders and owners will know of a rather big falling out between breeders resulting in a breakaway Sib club being formed.

The breeder I was thinking of seemed to have gone quiet for a while, but wished to contest a possible life ban, and had the financial means to do so. With my own work background, I do think that regulatory bodies sometimes avoid extreme confrontation. Which might mean more "informal" agreements being struck maybe? This makes sense given that the GCCF etc have finite budgets.

I'm sure there were breaches of regs, but some would say "thats a while ago, and things are different now". The breeders who told me bad info I do trust absolutely.

There's several breeders who advertise a lot on the usual sites. Part of me is very tempted. But if its "reg docs to follow" and
very hard to find info on the breeder. I'm really nervous on parting with nearly 1k. Not because of the money, but because at that rate, there's the bigger potential danger of a kitten farm/intensive breeding etc. And ofcourse I couldn't think of anything worse than a new kitten with chronic health problems that could have been easily prevented.

Additionally, there's always this issue of the "documents to follow" approach.

petforums DOT co DOT uk/threads/question-about-registration-of-a-breeder.340804/
Again, docs to follow is the policy of the main breeder in question. Its also an issue with some other breeders I've identified.

Anyway, I'm sort of struggling to find the kitten I want. I've found fantastic breeders OR kittens that look like just what I want. Just not the kitten AND the due dilligence in one place! There's a massive number of different types of Sibs.
Sometimes, I wonder if I'd have been happier if I'd gone into the process "blind" to the pitfalls! Some people say "oh just be patient, it will take a while". Then I think "Oh if I'd have bought from X breeder, atleast it would have been the cat colour/type I wanted".
Very frustrating! : )

Thanks for your posts all!
 
#139 ·
Sounds a really good idea Rufus.

If I haven't found the heir to the feline throne by the Autumn, I'll try one of the NEC shows to chit chat and stuff.

Which is better for someone looking to meet breeders? The Supreme one. Or the National Pet Show?
Or indeed is there another show that's best?
 
#141 · (Edited)
Thanks Rufus.
Can someone answer me this question?
How easy/quick is it to confirm TICA or GCCF documents regarding a kitten?
And how forthcoming/helpful are they if you want a quick answer?

How do people do it in practice when they are about to visit a breeder and ready to acquire a kitten?
I mean anyone can produce authentic looking documents if the registration bodies don't have extra steps.

PS not sure if this post is better suited to the pedigree papers sticky?
 
#142 ·
You can contact the registries and enquire if the kitten is genuinely registered, but you'd need to have the registration number and pedigree name to do so. A quick answer, as in you need an answer in less than two days, highly unlikely.

I don't understand your last question. What do you mean about extra steps?
 
#143 ·
I think it is a mistake to assume the majority of breeders are likely to give kitten owners fake documents. I suspect the dodgy 'breeders' don't bother with such things. Whatever I have thought of all the other breeders I have known, it has never occurred to me that their registration certificates were anything but genuine. They would be so much trouble to falsify and registration is a relatively cheap process. Many pedigree certificates I have seen have contained errors but only typos or misreading of handwriting and not intentional.
 
#144 ·
If you read the stick it has examples of genuine registration documents. I have shown my girls certificate to a buyer and it clearly has active on. Also when people visit to view my kittens they are not registered at that point in time as the future owners sometimes like to choose the pedigree name. Of course they are come collection day!
 
#149 ·
Any kitten from a GCCF breeder should be registered before you collect it unless there is an explicit agreement otherwise, in writing.

Have you read the GCCF's page on buying a kitten?

https://www.gccfcats.org/Buying-a-kitten

PS I'm a little bit known as a breeder in Scotland, I doubt if most people south of Leeds / Manchester have heard of me other than fellow forumites and the odd person on Facebook.
Yes, read it from top to bottom. I think I mentioned this on petforums with someone. The problem is, the breeder says "don't agree, then no kitten". All I want is to know the kitten is identified as the reg one.

Some breeders say "I'll register the litter at 8 months when they are all neutered". But like I said before, there is early neutering.
And what if there's some sort of problem at 8 months re registration? ("You told me he was a pet, not for showing, why do you want it now, he's a lovely cat isn't he? Do you want to return him to me?") Ofcourse its a disciplinary matter, but many/most buyers don't/won't bother complaining. Additionally, why wouldn't a litter (and not transfers) be registered early on? Maybe the GCCF should make the wording more demanding?
 
#153 ·
Nevas are unfortunately rather disliked by sib breeders (and buyers apparently, who all want brown or silver tabby). However if its what you want, then wait for it. I'll check which of my sib friends do nevas. I know at lest one did at one point.
 
#154 ·
I think your only option is to wait for the colour you want from a breeder you'd like. Nevas, as Tigermoon says, aren't popular in the UK (although I believe they're more popular in the US), and many people now have to wait for a pedigree from an ethical breeder. Breeders often now have their pick of homes, as opposed to the other way around, especially for longer haired cats which seem to be "in" at the moment
 
#155 · (Edited)
Hi,
Just wanted to share my experience so far.

Went to see a reputable breeder based on fb groups, cat club etc. I knew the lady has waiting lists etc. Met her, she showed me around her house, all her cats and sires etc. I was happy, i got on her waiting list but i knew it would be a while as i'm after a certain colour.

So fast forward, i started getting impatient and kept checking pet4homes as i wanted a kitten and didn't want ti wait any longer. I found some nice looking GCCF non active kittens, male too as i find males rare to find on pets4homes. Visited the breeder. She seemed lovely but mildly pushy and told me there's another lady waiting to see cats tomorrow. It was very suble selling tactic but i noticed it, maybe she was genuine. She didnt have the dad but i asked her about the mother and she said she's had to keep her away from the kittens as she wants to keep feeding the kittens but is too weak and has lost weight. In my head this didn't feel right but i was too (scared?) of persisting and asking to see her. She did not show me her other cats either just the 3 that were in the litter and available nor did she offer to show me the mother in another room. Maybe i shouldve asked and been more assertive?

I told her we needed to think about it and would let her know by end of the day. A few hours after i got home she wanted to know if i've made a decision because the other lady is asking. I said we've decided not to go ahead.

When i got home i had serious doubts, she was a nice lady but i get really put off when (i feel) someone is trying to pressure me. I felt like she just wanted to get rid of the cats. the cats were ok, they interacted with toys but one was quite aggressive with the other n scratched my 8 year old sensible son during play. He also seemed to flinch when my son would go near him could be cos he was a stranger even though they're handled by kids daily.

The other breeder i met doesn't advertise and she's part of the GCCF breeder scheme and the cat club whereas this breeder i saw today just registers her cats with GCCF but isn't part of a cat club or the breeder scheme. I'm wondering that's where the difference is.
I feel i'm paying the same amount for the registered cat i want to pay someone i feel i can trust and is open and transparent, happy to show me around the house and other cats and the parents.

I am thankful for this forum for educating me and even though i nearly made a mistake i am thankful for this forum for at least making me retain some warning signs that i need to look out for. Or maybe she was a genuine lady and i lost out on a good kitten but i can't part with that sort of money when i have my doubts about someone.
 
#156 ·
Or maybe she was a genuine lady and i lost out on a good kitten but i can't part with that sort of money when i have my doubts about someone.
If you ever have any doubt's whatsoever it is always best to walk away. The breeder may have been a good one but you should always buy from someone you feel comfortable with, as hopefully, you'll have a joint interest for the next 14+ years!

You should always see the mother. There are only two reasons I can think of that this can't happen 1. she's sick and at the vets. 2. she has died. Both are possibilities, though
thankfully rare. But any breeder worth their salt would be honest and explain the reason for her not being there.​

All I can say is be patient. Keep in mind the goal you are after and don't settle for anything else, even if that means you need to wait. Remember to keep in touch with the breeder, just a quick email to say 'Hi, how are the kittens/is there any kittens on the way' and a reminder of what you are looking for will go a long way. If I've not heard from someone for a month or more I think they've probably found a kitten elsewhere (this is very common and pretty frustrating from a breeders point of view as it wastes time while you try to find out who on your list is and isn't still looking).

Being a member of a cat club isn't necessarily a good or bad sign, similarly a breeder that shows isn't going to be necessarily better than one who doesn't. although it does perhaps show a stronger connection to the breed they own.
 
#157 ·
Hi, I'm new to the forum but joined to see if anyone else is having the same problems in the search for a new Maine Coon.
I've owned them before - my avatar is the last one, who sadly died a little while ago. Naturally, as any MC fan will understand, I want another one to replace her. I know who most of the reputable breeders are and where to find the main kitten lists, but I'm finding it really hard to get any up-to-date information.

Almost all the breeders seem to be letting their websites go out of date and not replying to emails. I thought perhaps they'd all migrated to Facebook, but peeking on there I couldn't find any more info. I can see from the breed society pages that these people are all still showing.
I realise it's a pain to keep a site current and everyone's busy, but from a potential owner's point of view, an up-to-date website really helps. For example, the breeder where I bought before is still breeding, she's a nice woman, but I had two kittens from her and one had HCM and died quite young. So before I contact her again I want to know which lines she's breeding from and if she's testing now - no info on her site, which is years out of date.
I can see that some breeders post on here, and I wondered if they know - is there a reason why people seem to be practically pulling down the shutters?

The sad thing is that it probably drives buyers to Gumtree, Pets4homes etc, where there are always recent postings from BYBs.
 
#160 ·
Hi, I'm new to the forum but joined to see if anyone else is having the same problems in the search for a new Maine Coon.
I've owned them before - my avatar is the last one, who sadly died a little while ago. Naturally, as any MC fan will understand, I want another one to replace her. I know who most of the reputable breeders are and where to find the main kitten lists, but I'm finding it really hard to get any up-to-date information.

Almost all the breeders seem to be letting their websites go out of date and not replying to emails. I thought perhaps they'd all migrated to Facebook, but peeking on there I couldn't find any more info. I can see from the breed society pages that these people are all still showing.
I realise it's a pain to keep a site current and everyone's busy, but from a potential owner's point of view, an up-to-date website really helps. For example, the breeder where I bought before is still breeding, she's a nice woman, but I had two kittens from her and one had HCM and died quite young. So before I contact her again I want to know which lines she's breeding from and if she's testing now - no info on her site, which is years out of date.
I can see that some breeders post on here, and I wondered if they know - is there a reason why people seem to be practically pulling down the shutters?

The sad thing is that it probably drives buyers to Gumtree, Pets4homes etc, where there are always recent postings from BYBs.
I'm a new Maine Coon breeder, maybe I can help?

A lot of breeders are getting more enquiries than they can keep up with. I would suggest ringing your chosen breeder(s) and either go on waiting lists or keep in contact with them regularly so you can get updates on when they might expect a litter.

If you want to take this over to pm, I can help you with this breeder and who might have their lines.
 
#159 ·
Hi, thanks for the quick reply! I haven't been to cat shows, I don't show myself and it always seemed a bit of an alien world :) But perhaps that's what people prefer now, personal contact rather than online.

None of my MCs would ever talk to strangers, at all, ever, so I can't imagine how you'd get one to put up with showing! I guess every breed has its divas.
 
#165 ·
Furfection,
Did you end up getting your cat from this breeder? Just wondering what the outcome was as we are also looking for a Siberian
Thanks

QUOTE="Furfection, post: 1065203248, member: 1473039"]I'm really finding it hard to check out a breeder here.

Anyway, I spoke to a high profile breeder with some champion cats (Siberians). Member of the original Sib club, registration listed on website etc. I though "oh fantastic , just have to wait til the kittens are ready now". Then I did some digging and found some really disturbing info. Information about ill kittens being sold, 1 or 2 later died, extremely poor breeding conditions etc. Also had a chat with some really nice people who corroborated this. Also legal cases that the breeder lost etc.

Before that, I'd spoken to the GCCF who said there was no current suspension vs the breeder. I asked "well how about the past, any fines, supsnesions, or disciplinary", bearing in mind I even had complaint numbers. I was told that this information is not released to the general public, very resistant to any further attempts at clarification. That was rather confusing because there are lists of who was fined what on the GCCF website. But the breeder in question wasn't listed as disciplined. I then had an email from the GCCF (another person) who said there was no record of discplinary proceedings vs that breeder and hasn't been suspended now or in the past. They do go on and say that the breeder hasn't registered kittens with them for quite a long time and that they could not comment on the standards of the breeder's breeding. Which made me wonder, because the breeder is very active right now with kittens described as registered.

So I am wondering... how do I make sense of this and reconcile apparent differences of facts? Has the breeder moved to TICA OR FIFe? Was the breeder told "don't register any new kittens here, and we won't ban you?" Does the GCCF have any real powers beyond acting as a database? I am told the breeder was rather aggressive vs the GCCF who are reluctant to enter "attack dog" mode. I really can't understand why GCCF staff are making contradictory statements.

Now ok, if this was some shady backyard breeder I'd expect strange stuff. But its one with big champion cats etc. And well recognised people issuing warnings about the breeder.
Should I expect to get clarification from GCCF if I go back to them? Will TICA provide me with answers? Or will I get nowhere? haha
Seriously though, can anybody help me with how GCCF and TICA etc handle these matters. And what should I conclude in my search for a kitten?[/QUOTE]
 
#166 ·
Furfection,
Did you end up getting your cat from this breeder? Just wondering what the outcome was as we are also looking for a Siberian
Thanks

QUOTE="Furfection, post: 1065203248, member: 1473039"]I'm really finding it hard to check out a breeder here.

Anyway, I spoke to a high profile breeder with some champion cats (Siberians). Member of the original Sib club, registration listed on website etc. I though "oh fantastic , just have to wait til the kittens are ready now". Then I did some digging and found some really disturbing info. Information about ill kittens being sold, 1 or 2 later died, extremely poor breeding conditions etc. Also had a chat with some really nice people who corroborated this. Also legal cases that the breeder lost etc.

Before that, I'd spoken to the GCCF who said there was no current suspension vs the breeder. I asked "well how about the past, any fines, supsnesions, or disciplinary", bearing in mind I even had complaint numbers. I was told that this information is not released to the general public, very resistant to any further attempts at clarification. That was rather confusing because there are lists of who was fined what on the GCCF website. But the breeder in question wasn't listed as disciplined. I then had an email from the GCCF (another person) who said there was no record of discplinary proceedings vs that breeder and hasn't been suspended now or in the past. They do go on and say that the breeder hasn't registered kittens with them for quite a long time and that they could not comment on the standards of the breeder's breeding. Which made me wonder, because the breeder is very active right now with kittens described as registered.

So I am wondering... how do I make sense of this and reconcile apparent differences of facts? Has the breeder moved to TICA OR FIFe? Was the breeder told "don't register any new kittens here, and we won't ban you?" Does the GCCF have any real powers beyond acting as a database? I am told the breeder was rather aggressive vs the GCCF who are reluctant to enter "attack dog" mode. I really can't understand why GCCF staff are making contradictory statements.

Now ok, if this was some shady backyard breeder I'd expect strange stuff. But its one with big champion cats etc. And well recognised people issuing warnings about the breeder.
Should I expect to get clarification from GCCF if I go back to them? Will TICA provide me with answers? Or will I get nowhere? haha
Seriously though, can anybody help me with how GCCF and TICA etc handle these matters. And what should I conclude in my search for a kitten?
[/QUOTE]

Nope. Didn't get a kitten from the one who had mixed reviews last Summer. Either way, I wasn't offered one. ANd didn't really get to the bottom of all of it. Would also be interested to hear from anyone else re Siberian information on breeders good, bad or middling.

Got my kitten from another breeder who was absolutely fantastic. Striking kitten, really lovely people.
And he gets on great with my older cat.
Glad I searched round for exactly what I wanted.
 
#167 ·
We did our research when we bought a Norwegian forest cat, they were a registered breeder and had won many competitions. We assumed this was indication of a good quality breeder.

We lived a distance from the breeder so reserved the kitten and went to pick him up it was December and obvious that they had multiple litters for the Xmas period, it was like a supermarket procession of people visiting for kittens!

When we got him home we separated from our other 3cats to give him time to get to meet them, when we visited the vets he was very underweight and riddled with ear mites, the breeders granddaughter had also painted the kittens nails with nail varnish which they had scrubbed off with remover which had damaged the nails, the vet thought there would be permanent damage.

It took about 6 weeks to sort out the eat mites which delayed the whole integration process with his new brothers and sister. He’s now a beautiful cat and has recovered from his poor start but researching the breeder doesn’t always work!
 
#168 ·
@faerienuff - I think one can get a very good idea of whether the breeder is a good one by visiting them at home, seeing their set up, how they do things, and meeting their queens, before even deciding if one wants a kitten from them in future. It also gives the breeder a chance to size up possible kitten buyers.

I did my research first, and went to cat shows to meet breeders. But it was the visits to each breeder's home that told me all I needed to know.

Having made my choice of breeder I asked if I could go on their waiting list for 2 kittens from one of the shortly expected litters ( she had 3 breeding queens). The breeder agreed and 6 months later I had my two kittens. They were the most gorgeous cats, my soul mates, and they lived to the age of 18 and died within 3 weeks of each other.
 
#169 ·
Hi chillminx

I agree it’s better to meet the breeder before hand if possible. I was trying to highlight that you can do you research on paper and the breeder looks good in terms of their registration and winning cats but when you buy a kitten this doesn’t necessarily add up. We have done both visited a breeder before hand and bought from a breeder we researched and looked good on paper and bought a pixie bob from a breeder we visited.neither came with official paperwork this was supposed to follow later and never did. The NFC breeder was winning all the shows in its category and looked like a top class breeder,

Where breeders get you are you fall in love with your bundle of fluff as soon as you see them and to be honest I wouldn’t change any of my decisions now I have them.

It does pay though to find an honest breeder who is interested in the cat above profit! And occasionally adopt a moggie or two
 
#170 ·
Depending on how much of the claws were painting, I would suggest that it was perhaps the breeder's way of telling kittens apart. A lot of breeders use toxic-free, kitten-safe nail varnish on a claw or two to identify similar looking kittens in a litter. I'd be surprised if all of his claws were painted, a child wouldn't be able to hold a kitten still for long enough.

Personally, I don't agree with it. I find it too risky and dangerous, even with safe varnishes, and I think it looks peculiar.

I would also say that it's not unusual to have more than one litter at a time, and to have a lot of visitors in a short period when there are multiple litters. Breeders have lives too, and if you have 2 litters of 6, that's 12 families that will visit at least once and some will visit 2 or 3 times. That's a lot of time to set aside for the breeder.

The ear mites and being underweight, however, are an issue. He shouldn't have been placed in a new home in that state, and the breeder is absolutely at fault
 
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