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Ethical breeding

Discussion in 'Cat Breeding' started by Melissa3236, Sep 25, 2019.


  1. Melissa3236

    Melissa3236 PetForums Junior

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    I appreciate your thoughts on this and will try to find a vet who is willing to help.
     
  2. Melissa3236

    Melissa3236 PetForums Junior

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    I appreciate your thoughts on this and will try to find a vet who will help with this.
     
  3. havoc

    havoc PetForums VIP

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    Everyone else has concentrated on the actual breeding but what breed are you thinking of? Have you ever owned a pedigree cat that you thought was so unbelievably beautiful, loved the character, looked at others of the breed and seen what makes it what it is? If you seriously want to go in for 'ethical' breeding you need to have a passion for furthering a breed and that means having the knowledge and means to improve it. Are you prepared to travel hundreds of miles to the right stud - twice, once to take your queen and once to pick her up a few days later? Are you happy to do it all again a few weeks later when she isn't pregnant? There's a saying that the way to make a small fortune from breeding is to start with a large one. It's true. It's expensive, time consuming, sometimes heartbreaking and absolutely exhausting. That said it can also be incredibly rewarding. Just be aware it isn't all rainbows and unicorns.
     
  4. gskinner123

    gskinner123 PetForums VIP

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    Your home being trashed really isn't too much of an overstatement. I came home at lunchtime today, having left it clean and tidy that morning. There was cat litter on the floor, bits of cardboard everywhere (five kittens decided to destroy a box), marinating in water all over the floor from a tipped up bowl. At 11 weeks, they have apparently just worked out how to reach the worktops - my papers for filing were all over the floor (in the water) and other items knocked onto the floor, some smashed/broken.

    My comfy chair in the kitchen - not that old, quite expensive and once beautiful - is full of catches and looks tired and worn.

    The kitchen however is bulletproof compared to my downstairs lounge (we TRY to keep another lounge cat free). I'm not going to bore you with the detail but I'm sure you can imagine. I keep it clean and tidy - you're always cleaning when you breed cats - but it isn't how I would otherwise choose my home to look and I do actually find it a little embarrassing when I have visitors. I just hope that my kitten buyers understand that my kittens are more important to me than pristine decor and beautiful soft furnishings.

    So you either need lots of money to keep replacing things or have a pretty large house to which kittens aren't allowed access to parts of (but then it isn't ideal, kittens kept away from normal everyday life) or you keep them in kitten pens or shut away in one room.

    I think it was Havoc who once said something like "I put up with things I wouldn't expect my kitten buyers to put up with" and that is so true. A kitten or two in a pet home can cause damage, we all know. A few whole litters of five or six every year, year on year, in your home is a lifestyle choice!
     
  5. lymorelynn

    lymorelynn UN Peacekeeper in training
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    Oh so true @gskinner123
    I complained to my husband about having to hoover every day but as he said, I'm only cleaning up after the cats.
    Sofa and curtains in the lounge need replacing but while I'm still breeding that's not going to happen.
     
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  6. lillytheunicorn

    lillytheunicorn PetForums Senior

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    @gskinner123 & @lymorelynn I have just bought a new scratcher to place in front of the sofa to discourage the furry terrors from finishing off the destruction to the sofa.
    My poor hoover died when the kittens were 15 & 10 weeks old I was so distraught. Thankfully we had a cordless one to survive the couple of days we were without one.

    @Melissa3236 please make sure you have a decent contingency fund if you do want to breed. Blue ended up requiring a c-section which luckily was in hours but was still £900 ish with oxytocin a few hours later. My friends cat requires an emergency c-section in the middle of the night for uterine torsion at the OOH vets which was around £2700. Both are Norwegians which have a low incidental of c-sections.
    Don’t get me wrong I love the kittens but it was the most stressful and tired I have been in my life when I was doing 2-hourly half feeds for the kittens after Blues c-section
     
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  7. Littlefluffykatts

    Littlefluffykatts PetForums Newbie

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    .....
     
    #27 Littlefluffykatts, Oct 5, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  8. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

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    Sadly a contract to neuter is worthless - most contracts are not enforceable in law, and BYBs can be very plausible. The only 100% sure way is neutering kittens before they leave you. BYBs don't care about the papers.

    Astonished at you jumping in with 5 girls and 3 boys. And wondering where you got a stud house for £800, if that includes insulation & electrics..
     
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  9. Littlefluffykatts

    Littlefluffykatts PetForums Newbie

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    #29 Littlefluffykatts, Oct 5, 2019
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  10. Rufus15

    Rufus15 ~ Orrono Maine Coons ~

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    There is ample scientific research and evidence proving that early neutering is safe and better for the kittens. Not statement, fact.

    Your contract is, sadly, not worth the paper it's written on and you could be penalised for it with the registering bodies.

    Three boys and five girls isn't a great ratio and is very ambitious for a new breeder. I certainly wouldn't be jumping in feet first like that and I've been mentored for 7 years (through various circumstances I've had to wait for a litter). That's a lot to take on for a new breeder, regardless of how much cash you have to splash.
     
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  11. gskinner123

    gskinner123 PetForums VIP

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    Almost every time I write something now, on this forum or social media regarding starting cat breeding/showing, it makes me acutely aware of my age.

    It's hard not to start with something like "back in the day" ... When I started breeding it was unheard of for a new breeder to own a stud or more than two girls. I won't go into the reasons why, it's too long, but I think those reasons are even more valid now than they were then

    I rarely see or have contact with new breeders now who start with a girl or two, are interested in showing or have any kind of knowledge of their chosen breed. It really is most often "in at the deep end" which brings with it all kinds of complex problems and questions that you wouldn't usually be dealing with until much further into the future.

    Through our work (as animal couriers) it's very common to see new breeders importing upwards of five cats within the space of a few months. It isn't my job (literally) to question or criticise but it does leave me thinking...wow. And then I keep my thoughts to myself!
     
  12. Rufus15

    Rufus15 ~ Orrono Maine Coons ~

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    I'm in agreement with all of this, which makes me sad. Not the agreeing part, but the fact that it's nigh impossible to find a new breeder that takes their time to learn before diving in
     
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  13. Littlefluffykatts

    Littlefluffykatts PetForums Newbie

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    #33 Littlefluffykatts, Oct 5, 2019
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  14. Rufus15

    Rufus15 ~ Orrono Maine Coons ~

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    Surely 20 years of experience would give you the common sense to not have such a ration then? Sorry, it just seems a bit of a contradiction.

    It's great you've got dedication, please bear in mind that you're not the only one. No ethical breeder would breed without a certain amount of dedication. Mind you, it depends on what one is dedicated to....
     
  15. Littlefluffykatts

    Littlefluffykatts PetForums Newbie

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    To preserving a breed.
     
  16. Rufus15

    Rufus15 ~ Orrono Maine Coons ~

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    So, again, your experience should tell you that your ratio is risky and quite unfair on your boys unless you're willing to stud out, which again isn't advisable for a new breeder.

    Sorry, but I'm baffled
     
  17. Littlefluffykatts

    Littlefluffykatts PetForums Newbie

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    #37 Littlefluffykatts, Oct 5, 2019
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  18. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

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    Since you chose to come into this thread and post a lot of contradictory opinions, why shouldn't you justify? In other words if you didn't want to explain yourself, why did you bring it all up in the first place?

    If you were hoping for a rational give and take discussion, part of that is explaining your reasons.
     
  19. Rufus15

    Rufus15 ~ Orrono Maine Coons ~

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    A breeder should always be able to explain why they've taken a decision, it's a position of responsibility and breeders should be held accountable to some degree by their peers. That doesn't necessarily mean justifying one's self and there's no need to get defensive.

    You have volunteered information that has raised concerns, and as this thread is about ethical breeding, would it be ethical of us to say nothing?
     
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  20. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

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    'high horse' is really quite offensive, and the 20 years doesn't seem to be breeding pedigree cats. The experience you have had will be very, very useful, but breeding is different to looking after ferals & rescues.
     
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