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English Bull Terrier first mating

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by Miss'j, Jun 23, 2010.


  1. Miss'j

    Miss'j PetForums Junior

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    :001_unsure:

    I have a male and female bull terrier both aged two. The female is in heat on her 17th day and the male has been showing interest in her ie mounting her since the 13th day, however he keeps missing the target and has not penetrated her resulting in no tie.

    The breeder has advised me that mating can be very difficult and i may have to assist them both with the help of somebody else. I have tried this and when i am near them both dogs walk away from one another.

    Both dogs are in experienced, any advise on this anyone?

    KR Miss'j
     
    #1 Miss'j, Jun 23, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  2. sullivan

    sullivan PetForums VIP

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    i have heard that some bull breeds dont tie whilst mating but need to be held there for 10 mins to help. But i cant help sorry . Im sure someone else can give advice.
     
  3. Miss'j

    Miss'j PetForums Junior

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    I have been told that they are a difficult breed to mate, they are very stubborn i know that much :lol:

    KR Miss'j
     
    #3 Miss'j, Jun 23, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  4. sullivan

    sullivan PetForums VIP

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    my brother owns a american bullly not a english, but hes never breed from him as not suitable due to faults. But he was brought for the family knowing he wouldnt breed from him . He is on here under the name of Morris theres pics in his profile if you fancy a peek. Im not sure if there will be any other bully owners listed in his friends list you could send a message to .
     
  5. Shamen

    Shamen Guest

    could the breeder of the dogs not help? i just wondered have your dogs been health tested before you breed? because BT's can suffer from serious genetic health conditions.
     
  6. leoti

    leoti PetForums VIP

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    I hope both dogs have been health tested for

    KIDNEY DISEASE
    HEART DISEASE
    DEAFNESS
    LETHAL ACRODERMATITIS
    PATELLA LUXATION
     
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  7. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    To be honest, unless you know what you're doing, or can get an experienced stud dog handler to help you, I wouldn't bother trying at all. Having a stud dog is more of a responsibility than breeding from a bitch. You need to be able to make an internal examination of the bitch to see if there are any possible problems that might be preventing them mating and tieing, and not all bitches are appreciative of being mated, even to a dog they are familiar with. You can imagine the damage if she turns aggressive, and even the most placid bitch can become aggressive at mating.

    I've copied and pasted this from another forum (with the permission of the op), altered it slightly so hopefully it's not advertising the other forum, but this is the perspective from a very experienced stud dog owner/handler. Not all of it applies to you, as you're not advertising a stud service, but gives you an idea of what can go wrong......

    'At sometime in nearly every male, decently bred, dogs' life, the owner thinks... "Do you know, we should breed from this dog".

    I handle outside dogs at stud and also my own stud dogs. Whilst the impression is that one throws two dogs into a garden and nature takes over sadly nothing could be further from the truth. There are legal and ethical responsibilities these days to handling a stud dog. I would add the fact that you do not 'have a stud dog' you 'offer a stud SERVICE'. That service is not just putting dog A with bitch B and leaving them to mate. 90% of dogs won't. They are domesticated and do not have the natural instincts of days gone by.

    Your stud service is that you know lots about bitch reproduction and so can tell THEM when to bring her to your dog. You will need to know what to look for and feel for (including sometimes internals on the bitches which come to you) to know she is ready for mating before allowing your dog to mate her. Most dogs cannot penetrate without hand manipulation into the right place. Bitches do not stand rock steady and infact some are VERY aggressive about being mated.
    Would you know if that aggression was because she wasn't ready for mating or if she was just being a difficult old bag?
    Holding down a bitch, not ready for mating, can result in injury to her, and certainly to your stud dog.

    Do you know what a slip mating is? Its when the dog mates the bitch, and ejaculates into her but hasn't 'tied' her and therefore, ejaculates and steps off, with his bits extended and post seminal fluid raining down on everyone that should have been going into the bitch during the tie. Are you aware how to handle this? How long to wait before trying again to make the mating worth while as he has 'come' once? How dissappointed most bitch owners are with a slip mating? Do you know how to explian the facts of bitches concieving from slip matings (they can but bitch owners don't believe you most of the time and can give you a hard time about it...)

    What if those people had driven 100 miles to your dog and you stand there with him jumping on and off, on and off and nothing happening? Do you understand the mechanics of the way dogs mate and tie. How to turn your dog so they are back to back with a bitch thrashing, snarling and yelling as it is uncomfortable? Do you know about advising about care of the inseason bitch, about what to recommend they do after the mating with her? About feeding and care of the inwhelp bitch? They often won't - YOU provide the service for a fee, or a puppy back, so YOU need to know for their sake. Do you know how to break a tie between two dogs in an emergency? (and it doesn't involve throwing a bucket of water over them....)

    What if you dog cannot put his penis back in its sheath? Do you know your legal position if the bitch develops or picks up and infection shortly after mating? What the Kennel Club expect of you as regards paperwork? The inland revenues standpoint on taking money on a regular basis and putting it in your bank account?

    What if there are problems with the puppies? Cleft palletes, disabilities? Swimmers (do you know what a swimmer is?) etc etc etc...

    I know I sound a HORRIBLE person, but its not a friendly arrangement. People pay to use your dog and want pups. Healthy pups. A no nonsense servcing from your dog, two ties 48 hours apart, and a litter of 10 pups all who are better than their parents. An easy pregnancy, advice all the way down the line, the paperwork all present and correct and perfection in the offspring for the rest of their days. Bitch owners are and SHOULD BE demanding. They are paying money for something and should get what they pay for to the very bestof your ability. Even if money doesn't change hands no bitch wants a botched inexperienced dog leaping on and off her every day for 10 days whilst you chaps learn by hit and miss how to mate dogs. It will turn any bitch into a snapping snarling wreak.

    A bitch needs to come bang on when she is ready, be mated swiftly with as little fuss as possible, with the dog manipulated into her FAST, she needs supporting, and the turn when they tie to be clean, no fuss and as painless as possible for her. Its not easy....

    Sadly nature doesn't kick in often these days. Mismatings between Jack Russells and Great Danes which people cite when saying 'it must be easy mating dogs if THAT can happen' are fairy tales. Almost certainly mismatings are distressing, painful, long winded and hellish for the bitch, and with his bits locked into a fighting snarling bitch, pretty damn awful for the dog. hence the stud SERVICE needing to be offered and carried out.'

    Apologies for the graphic language, the post tells it how it is though, and is hopefully no worse than what kids learn at schools these days. It gives you a good idea though of what you need to know before you go about using your dog, let alone your bitch, and that's even before you answer the questions about health testing. Lots to think about ;)
     
    davehyde and RockRomantic like this.
  8. kaisa624

    kaisa624 PetForums VIP

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    You said yourself that both of your dogs are inexperienced, so I'm guessing maiden... I was always told to get a well proven stud for a maiden bitch, and vice versa for a maiden stud.
     
  9. Miss'j

    Miss'j PetForums Junior

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    Hi...i will have a read on his thread, thank you. :thumbup:

    KR Miss'j


    Il tip your scales
     
  10. Cay

    Cay PetForums Member

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    It is very unlikely that the most suitable dog for your girl is owned by you.
     
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  11. Miss'j

    Miss'j PetForums Junior

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    The breeder is willing to help but lives 176 miles away from me. He has been giving me advise by telephone and i am welcome to visit.

    Of course my dogs have been health tested, i am a new breeder but a responcible one and take this very seriously, my animals welfare is my priority.

    KR Miss'j
     
  12. Miss'j

    Miss'j PetForums Junior

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    All advise welcome. I have educational books, read the internet, recieved advise from the breeder, the vet, and now i have become a member of this forum. I am very willing to learn and gain experience in breeding and enjoy and love my animals very much. Im also considering studing a short course on behaviour.

    I have a very long way to go but im ejoying every moment of it and hope to breed a lovely litter in the future, i am not doing this for the money, it is a hobby and the love of animals, and to improve the breed. I am a member of a couple of clubs and will be showing my dogs this year.

    KR Miss'j
     
  13. Miss'j

    Miss'j PetForums Junior

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    Advise taken...im going to be visiting the breeder and doing just that, hopfully i will learn alot.

    KR Miss'j
     
  14. Miss'j

    Miss'j PetForums Junior

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    You may be correct. The male dog was recommended to me by the breeder as being suitable for my bitch, as he knows the dogs.

    All advise welcome.

    KR Miss'j
     
  15. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    Everybody has to start somewhere when it comes to breeding, it's good to see you're taking all advice on board. If you're not sure this time round, I'd leave it until next season. I've disappointed waiting lists several times now before I take my first ever (possibly only) litter from my Labrador bitch, because I'd rather have everything in place, and make sure all is in order before I go ahead. There are lots of threads on here about breeding, including the health tests, and also KC registration, contracts, puppy packs etc, etc, they should keep you busy for a while if you haven't already read up on these things. Good luck, and nice to see you're sticking around to keep us up to date :)
     
  16. Shamen

    Shamen Guest

    my neighbours BT was pts at 3yrs old due to inherited kidney disease she'd been fine up to this point, so i would have thought it better to breed when bitches were around 3 and dogs even older just to see if the condition arises, im not sure about this but dont they recommend testing every 6 months on breeding stock for the kidney condition as it can develop at any time?
     
  17. Miss'j

    Miss'j PetForums Junior

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    New breeders have to start somewhere your right and if you genuinely care for animals and have an interest in a breed, with the space that alone is good grounds to start.

    I have grown up with dogs and have been interested in this breed for years, i enjoy animals more than people, they are loyal and good company. I have met some wonderfull people at shows and find bull terriers fasinating, they have the potential to be vicious animals in the wrong hands but i know them to be fun loving, stubborn, courageous, fearless and affectionate dogs who make very good family pets.

    It annoys me when i read bad articles about them, tirin them all with the same brush. In my opinion it is the owners fault with regards to the way in which the handle and bring them up. Anyway thats another subject.

    KR Miss'j
     
    #17 Miss'j, Jun 24, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  18. paddyjulie

    paddyjulie PetForums VIP

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    they recommend a upc test for bullies anything under .3 the presume as clear from the disease...not sure about the 6 month ...to be honest all bullies should be tested as it is a very early indication that there is something going wrong with the kidneys...
    I now will get Mavis done every year..

    We lost Ozzy late last year to kidney failure at 2 years old...

    Miss J i would love to see some pictures of your bullies if you have time...and good luck

    juliex
     
  19. Shamen

    Shamen Guest

    so sorry you lost your dog to this awful condition and he was so young aswell:frown: just shows how irresponsible it is not to test before breeding, do you think breeding is best left as late as possible to see if the disease develops Julie?
     
  20. paddyjulie

    paddyjulie PetForums VIP

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    I would think it probably is ... So many bullterriers are dying young now with this horrible disease... Within four month of us noticing something was just not right with ozzy he was gone...I personally now will never get a bullterrier puppy who parents have not been tested... The UPC check is brilliant ... As blood test only show something is wrong when the disease is advanced ..

    Juliex
     
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