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Ear Cropping

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by MerlinsMum, Aug 24, 2013.


  1. MerlinsMum

    MerlinsMum PetForums VIP

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    Prompted by another thread, I've been looking into the history of animal welfare, in particular the various Acts of Parliament on cruelty to animals over the last 200 years.

    1849 - Cruelty to Animals Act bans all forms of dog fighting, bear baiting, cock fighting and bull baiting. Etiher before this or shortly afterwards, dogs are not permitted to pull carts or be used for transport purposes.

    1854The above extends to include other welfare aspects.

    Ear Cropping of dogs was banned either in the 1849 or the 1854 Acts - I can't find out which - along with "dubbing" poultry and spur removal. As Dubbing means the removal (cropping, cutting off) of the comb and wattle of chickens, usually done for fighting birds, then the banning of all forms of fighting sport with animals logically excludes these practices of mutilation.

    Removal of the spurs of fighting cocks was usual, as they were then fitted with sharp steel spurs instead, designed to cause maximum injury (have personally seen this myself in Asia where cock fighting is still legal).

    We go on chronologically, and in 1873 The Kennel Club was formed to oversee and organise dog shows.

    Interestingly enough, despite ear cropping being outlawed by 1854, it was only in 1898 that the KC banned dogs with cropped ears from it shows, and that still stands today.

    There is not one breed of dog recognised by the KC today, which originated (or was mainly developed) within the UK, which still has its ears traditionally cropped, either here or overseas. Not to sound jingoistic, but that accounts for quite a lot of breeds worldwide.

    Saying that - there is ONE exception - the Manchester Terrier. Despite the ear cropping ban in its native country long before the breed was properly recognised there or in the USA, the Manchester is still allowed to have cropped ears in the United States.

    All the breeds which are ear cropped in other countries originated from France, Germany or Belgium and other countries where it is, or has been until recently, still legal.

    Interesting little vignette... and food for thought if - or when - you encounter an argument that ear cropping is "traditional" and "makes the dog look better".
     
    #1 MerlinsMum, Aug 24, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2013
  2. BessieDog

    BessieDog PetForums VIP

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    With regard to ears, in this country I doubt many would disagree. But tail docking is a can of worms which I'd hesitate to open.

    Suffice to say I don't want any animal of mine to have bits lopped off for my convenience or pleasure.
     
  3. lilythepink

    lilythepink PetForums VIP

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    Can never see the point in ear cropping, can see the point in tail docking.lol. see if this does open a can of worms.lol
     
  4. MerlinsMum

    MerlinsMum PetForums VIP

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    This is not the thread for discussion of tail docking.... just Ears :D

    I was gobsmacked to discover the Manchester Terrier is routinely cropped in the USA, given that they weren't present in that country until after the cropping ban came in here.

    All the main breeds of dogs which are routinely ear cropped originate from other European countries, some of whom have now banned the practice themselves.

    The Problem with Cropping
     
  5. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    Ear cropping serves no purpose, tail docking at least prevents injury to working spaniels/hprs. It's purely for the look and can require months of taping the dog's ears upright. I don't agree with it at all but I have seen plenty of americans argue that it makes the dog especially in dobermanns :thumbdown:. It's wrong because it provides no benefit to the dog.
     
  6. labradrk

    labradrk PetForums VIP

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    The US seem to be a bit behind the times in areas like this. Same with de-barking dogs, de-clawing cats, use of e-collars, prongs, force fetch 'training', etc. That's not to say its perfect here in blighty but...
     
  7. lilythepink

    lilythepink PetForums VIP

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    I saw an imported harlequin great dane with cropped ears. All focus went from the dog to the ears, I suppose its what you get used to but I prefer a dog complete as it was meant to be.

    GSD have pricked up ears, dobermanns don't.
     
  8. Tigerneko

    Tigerneko PetForums VIP

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    I own a Manchester Terrier (well, my dad does, technically she's his) and I would HATE to see her with cropped ears.

    In the UK it is totally different, we have an obsession with them having tipped ears to make them look more focused. Mabel's ears just go wherever they want (never where they 'should' be) although they often come right in the show ring when she is concentrating, which is all that matters :) to me, they'd look ridiculous with cropped ears!

    If the Americans want a black and tan dog with pointed ears, why not just opt for a Min Pin or an English Toy Terrier? The Manchester is OUR native breed and we don't ever and have never cropped them, so why the Americans feel it is appropriate I have no idea. If a Manchester entered a UK show ring with naturally pointed ears they'd be lobbed out :p so it is WRONG.
     
  9. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    The original dobermanns were cropped but not like the american showdogs of today, it was much shorter. The people that crop argue that they should be allowed to show a dog like that but so should the people that choose not to.

    The briard bob at westminster last year was a uk dog and therefore uncropped :laugh: as was a russian black terrier a couple of years ago. so they can win
     
  10. SleepyBones

    SleepyBones Banned

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    I was surprised at that, I have seen a team of Huskys pulling a guy on some kind of wheeled sledge (best way to describe) around 5 years ago.
    .
     
  11. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    I know when I brought in a trainer to deal with Buster's pulling issues she said her bernese couldn't pull a cart because it was banned.
     
  12. Tigerneko

    Tigerneko PetForums VIP

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    I've seen Bernese pulling carts at a large agricultural show :confused:
     
  13. SleepyBones

    SleepyBones Banned

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    De-barking was legal in some aussi states around 5 years ago, prongs are legal throughout UK & so are e-collars except Wales, 'force fetch'?? that really means nothing!? its not banned anyway whatever is supposed to be meant by it.
     
  14. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    Maybe along public roads or something I don't know

    Force fetch from what I've seen is hurting the dog until it takes the dumbell so it retrieves every time, pinching its lip, standing on its toe or shocking it constanty. In the UK we prefer to breed gundogs that actually want to retrieve, not breed for drive and force what should be natural instincts into them.
     
  15. Tigerneko

    Tigerneko PetForums VIP

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    Yeah maybe if it's classed as 'private land' then it's allowed, the show was on a large country estate which I think is still privately owned. I can't recall whether there was anything in the cart or not, I don't think there was, so maybe that makes a difference also.
     
  16. SleepyBones

    SleepyBones Banned

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    I come across gundogs quite a bit, also a guy who shoots but has bred working spaniels for many years, the term 'forced fetch' has never been mentioned by any of them, are you talking about its use in competitions of some kind?
    .
     
  17. lilythepink

    lilythepink PetForums VIP

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    we have husky teams and sled teams pulling people on sleds with wheels in the UK cos I have seen them.a sled with wheels = a cart?

    and, the dogs scream with excitement and love it.
     
  18. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    The forced fetch is a way of training a dog to hold the item, so basically, whilst some people take their time and actually train their dogs to hold onto the dummy or game with kind methods, some trainers use force fetch methods where the dog is subjected to pain in some way if they drop the retrieve :(

    Back to ear cropping, don't like it at all, but it doesn't surprise me that the AKC has a different set of standards, when you look at the differences between the UK KC and their standards - our heaviest show bred Labradors are just about acceptable over there, my dogs are far, far too light in bone and substance for the AKC *type* of Labrador.

    I'm sure there will be endless differences between different countries and their kennel clubs.
     
  19. leashedForLife

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    The APBT / AmStaff is a direct descendant of the UK's bull-&-terriers from the late 1700s / early 1800s,
    as is the Boston [Bull-And-]Terrier, & the Staffordshire [Bull-And-]Terrier.

    All are frequently shown with cropped ears in the USA.

    The Boxer, named for the Boxer Rebellion in China, not for the dog's supposedly pugilistic skills,
    was the result of an initial crossbreeding of the Kaiser's favorite mastiff, a dog, & the British diplomat's
    favorite English Bulldog, a bitch; the diplomat's son was trapped inside China by the Rebellion, & escaped
    by making his way across the country to Russia, & thence eventually home, where his family had been
    very worried, as of course they had no word of him until he reached the Russian court.
    Boxers are also still shown cropped; a few dogs have managed to make champion with natural ears,
    but it's been dam*ed few, & those few, male.
    .
    .
     
  20. SleepyBones

    SleepyBones Banned

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    Are you all talking about this concept as something used by competition dog trainers or what, I come across working gundog trainers & a couple of gamekeepers & pheasant breeders frequently but I never heard any of them refer to that term, so, is it a competition training term?
    .
     
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