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Dog tied yesterday but not interested today, has the bitch gone over?

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by Lemspa, Jan 16, 2021.


  1. Lemspa

    Lemspa PetForums Newbie

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    Hi there,
    I've been planning on breeding my small breed dog for some time however she is prone to silent heats and this one sprang up on us a month early too so I'm not 100% sure which day she's on because there was no bleeding or signs (she is semi-longhaired so her swelling only became obvious about 5/6 days ago.

    I let my friend who owns the stud know she may be ready in about 10 days as soon as i saw the swelling, assuming that was day one.

    But four days later our neutered boy had ended up in a tie with her, so I told my friend she was actually ready sooner, the day after the tie with our neutered boy, we had the stud over and they tied twice about 12 hours apart. The next day though there was little interest from him in her

    My question is, is his disinterest because she may have gone over? Should I attempt to organise another mating in a couple of days? We had a miss the last time she tried due to *i think* being too early but with the silent heats its really hard to know. Any advice would be appreciated!
    Thank you!
     
  2. Lemspa

    Lemspa PetForums Newbie

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    Interesting assumption I am a backyard breeder, where exactly have I given that impression?

    I actually hold a 1st class degree in BSc Animal Biology and have worked with dogs and in a lab that diagnosed (and helped stop the carrying on of) genetic diseases in dogs
    I may not have much hands on experience in this area but everyone starts somewhere. I have worked with and spoken to a fair amount of breeders and one thing that is fairly universal is this kind of assumption that people who dont own an actual kennels arent worth the time of day. Its just rude
     
  3. Rafa

    Rafa PetForums VIP

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    It would be unusual for a bitch to be receptive and for a tie to be achieved if she wasn't at the appropriate time in her season.

    I always found with my bitches that the vulva began to swell after the blood loss ended, so on around day ten and it's at that point the bitch is normally in her receptive phase.

    As there were two matings, with a tie, I would assume that your bitch is pregnant.
     
  4. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

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    None of this means anything really. If your dog isn't part of a specific breeding program, for the betterment of the breed, you are a back yard breeder. You have just been "planning to breed" her. For what reason? Because she's a champion with proven lines? You've arranged a stud of the same caliber, to create superior specimens of the breed?

    You have a mentor to guide you through the process, you have a breeding program in place for betterment of this breed?

    No? You just want to breed her because you want to? Then you are a back yard breeder, and there are enough already, especially now with all the covid BYB.
     
  5. Lemspa

    Lemspa PetForums Newbie

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    Thanks so much thats very helpful :)
     
  6. Lemspa

    Lemspa PetForums Newbie

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    I wonder what you consider the betterment of the breed? So many breeds have been accentuated beyond recognition following this pattern of behaviour, not to mention the lack of genetic diversity and bottle-necking. I'm not saying all breeders are like this by a long shot. But when I worked in dog genetics there was a line of champion Pembrokeshire corgi's who needed genetic profiling done because the puppies had two potential sires, who were, theoretically not closely related, however the two potential fathers had so much DNA in common that of the 21 markers that are used, they shared 20 and it was impossible to tell who have fathered which pup. Retracing the pedigree found that so many of the same dams and sires popped up in their pedigrees its no wonder their genetic profile was so similar.
    You can't improve a breed by breeding in all the time, all it leads to is homozygosity. In the case of working dogs, keeping those working instincts are integral, but breeding for a brachycephalic face for example, because it's 'breed standard' is inherently wrong, and plenty of 'real breeders' will happily breed dogs with these kind of defects because it's in the breed standard.
    I believe you and I probably have very different views of what 'good breeding' really means so I'm leaving the subject there.
     
  7. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    Is there really a need to have a dig at everyone that wants to breed their bitch regardless of their knowledge unless they happen to be doing it exactly as you would if you ever wanted to breed. All it does is chase people away. Yes, there are some people who make even me shudder when they come on here with their breeding plans and it is not a bad idea to steer them away from it but being rude to someone who is obviously knowledgeable about dogs and genetics is just going to chase them away and then they will be struggling to get advice when the bitch is whelping and rearing pups. Honestly, where do you think we all got our dogs from. Even rescue dogs have to be bred by someone!
     
  8. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

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    I don't dig at 'every one'. About one in ten. That's how many we see here. It's never ending. I wasn't rude. I posted some links. Links that are stickies in this forum. There wasn't anything "obvious" about how much knowledge this person has about dogs or breeding, either one.
     
    Lurcherlad likes this.
  9. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    I'm not fully familiar with this, but I wonder if this could be problematic? I do know that you should never let a neutered boy try to mate because of the potential for a tie and that it can be damaging to the bitch, and having tied the day before with the neutered boy might affect the tie with the intact male.

    Interesting! So did you do any tests on your own bitch?
    Out of curiosity what breed is she? And the male?
     
    Lurcherlad and simplysardonic like this.
  10. SusieRainbow

    SusieRainbow Moderator
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    I do feel we should be more positive with newbies in the breeding section. Yes,we all hate indiscrminate breeding , we know breeding isn't about cute fluffy puppies, but I don't think it appropriate for the first replies to be condemning the breeding before finding out more facts.
    We are turning away new members quite frequently in this way, could we be a little more diplomatic?
     
  11. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

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    I posted links to stickied threads on this forum. That's all. The OP chose to take offense at that. I concede my second reply might be a bit snarky, but still, nothing they said shows they know anything about ethical breeding, or why they are choosing to breed this dog. If they leave this forum, will they find congratulations on breeding this dog somewhere else? Do you really want this forum to be that way, encouraging everyone who comes in to breed the family pet? I know I've been asked before to try to be less snarky. But sometimes I just get up to the teeth.
     
  12. Lemspa

    Lemspa PetForums Newbie

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    Yes it was a bit of a shock to us too when we realised that was something that would happen even after he was neutered. I looked into it when it first happened and as far as the problems its only as potentially problematic as any other tie, so in essence don't allow it to happen unsupervised. Unfortunately, as I've said in my original post, I didn't know precisely where in her cycle she was so they were still being kept together (as we separate them to prevent these unsupervised ties during peak times) and hey presto, my partner walked into the room and they were tied. They were totally fine though. And the tie itself is not as long as a 'real' tie, it only lasts a few minutes.

    They are Papillons, and yes we tested for PRA and VWD, both of which were clear.
     
  13. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    I wouldn't allow it to happen at all. That can't be healthy for either of them.
    Glad to hear they're both PRA and VWD clear.
    Papillons are great little dogs, I've met some really fun ones in dog sports. Do you do anything with yours?
     
  14. Rafa

    Rafa PetForums VIP

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    To be fair, none of us knew anything about the OP, her intentions or knowledge from her first post.

    Posting a link to a thread about Backyard Breeders wasn't appropriate IMO.

    I prefer to withhold judgement if I'm not in possession of the facts.
     
  15. Lemspa

    Lemspa PetForums Newbie

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    Sorry I did mean to say we don't let it happen BY leaving them unsupervised! As soon as I know she's in heat they are kept in different areas of the house.

    And yes she absolutely loves agility, we did it more before I had my daughter, but theyre incredibly fast and clever, like miniature collies!
     
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  16. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    Well I agree with you. What's been done to dogs in the name of show and professional breeding is horrific.
    And I'd far prefer to obtain a pup from a home breeder than a 'professional' who keeps dogs and pups penned outside. Every breeder does have to do it the first time.
     
    charlie15 and Lemspa like this.
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