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Dog insurance (no booster vaccinations)

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by Rainmaker, Nov 16, 2009.


  1. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker PetForums Member

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    I'm looking to insure my two working dogs (terriers) at the moment. PDSA Insurance seemed ideal, offers lifetime coverage for each illness or injury up to the insured amount, their vet fees cover amount is per claim not per year, and importantly they WILL cover dogs who work, excluding coursing. So far, so good!

    However it all fell down when I queried the ambiguous policy wording about vaccination. The policy document seemed to indicate fairly clearly that if you choose not to give your pet boosters, then they simply won't cover illness resulting from a disease that vaccination would have covered. Fair enough.

    Upon ringing them to take out the cover however, I queried it to be safe and was told they would not pay out for ANY illness or injury, however sustained, if the pet wasn't boostered up to date. So if (heaven forbid!) they broke a leg for example, the insurance wouldn't pay out because the dog wasn't vaccinated to date?!

    That seems more than a little silly! I explained that the prevailing scientific (i.e. independent) literature generally agrees that (1) puppy boosters generally last the life of the pet and (2) boosters are at best ineffectual and at worst positively damaging or lethal!

    My vet agrees that it's unnecessary to booster my dogs, but unfortunately not all insurance companies seem to agree. The lady on the phone was very apologetic and agreed with me that it was daft. She told me there are other 'excellent' companies out there who DON'T require a dog to be vaccinated and/or boostered, but she couldn't tell me who they were.

    So, does anyone know of a good reputable insurance company who will accept dogs who do not receive annual boosters? Many thanks in advance. :)
     
  2. LostGirl

    LostGirl PetForums VIP

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    i dont know, I insure with tesco and they cover all illness except those that would normally be covered by the jabs

    I dont do my cats after they have had thier kitten jabs they havnt needed them, and they have paid out the max amount for one cat when he got run over

    Although im not sure about dogs and the cover only goes it £4k which isnt a huge amount but they are very good payer outers lol! and customer services are always pretty good!
     
  3. Dally Banjo

    Dally Banjo PetForums VIP

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    Sorry dont know either but dont go with E&L unless you can wait months for them to pay out :mad2: I had both these two with them & then Banjo was diagnosed with hip dysplacia so we stuck with them for him but have just changed Holly to argos fingers crossed they better seem good on paper:)
     
  4. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    To be perfectly honest I see where they are coming from to an extent, it just covers their back as much as possible.

    I am very aware of the apparent over vaccinations of dogs, but have you actually got yours titre tested??

    This is basically a blood test where they test the strength of the immunity, and if above a certain amount the dog still has immunity.

    Rupert was titre tested at about 13 months old and we discovered his immunity was not high enough to be protected, and so this year he had his booster shots. For whatever reason Rupert's boosters hadn't even covered one year of his life, hence why I think it is important to actually test for it.

    I wouldn't not vaccinate Roo without getting him titre tested, perhaps if this is done you could discuss with the insurance company, whether it is proof enough that the dog is immune and doesn't need the boosters?

    Its not overly expensive, I will do this next year also.

    I'm sorry but I don't really go for not vaccinating unless a titre test has been done or there is a specific medical reasons decided by the vet not too :eek:
     
    #4 GoldenShadow, Nov 16, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2009
  5. DelboyTrotter

    DelboyTrotter Banned

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    I have been looking into pet insurance with a couple of mates, One who is in the forces has opted to go with a company that is little heard of JBH they give it seems cracking discounts to the armed forces but anyone can buy this. There cover is not the highest but from what I have been told they do offer good easy to understand policies and have quite a good write up.

    As for the jabs, I don't think there is an insurer on earth who would cover any pet for any illness that could have been avoided by vaccinations.
     
  6. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker PetForums Member

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    Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check them out.

    However, to be clear(!)... I did NOT ask for a company who'd cover an unvaccinated dog for an illness that a vaccine would have covered! LOL

    I asked for a company who would cover a dog for anything ELSE, with exception (which I completely understand) for the vaccinate-able diseases. PDSA said they wouldn't pay out on a broken leg, if the dog hadn't had a vaccination that year. Those are the kinds of companies I'm looking to avoid.

    So for example, if my dog broke her leg I'd expect my pet insurer to pay out for it. PDSA won't. If my dog got parvo, I'd understand if the insurer DIDN'T pay.

    However based on current literature I'm happy to follow my vet's advice and refrain from boosters. Vaccination is a very inexact science to begin with.
     
  7. DelboyTrotter

    DelboyTrotter Banned

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    I would have thought that the majority of companies would cover any illness other then those that could have been avoided by vaccination should an owner choose not to vaccinate (as more and more are doing now). Perhaps the best way to be certain is to telephone any prosprective companies and ask them specifically the question, that was there can be no confusion.
     
  8. alysonandhedley

    alysonandhedley PetForums Senior

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    Could you direct me to the literature about not needing boosters please? Our old dog wasnt vaccinated beyond 8 years old as we came to this conclusion as a family. Our puppy is of course vaccinated and will be again next year. How much does titre testing cost? What are the dangers of over-vaccinating?
     
  9. sullivan

    sullivan PetForums VIP

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    My insurance company will not insure a pet with no boosters etc, i think your find the same with most im afraid.
     
  10. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    The cost of titre testing varies from vet to vet, it does cost more than the boosters but I thought it was worth paying. I paid about £30-35 I think for ours.

    This link is very good, the layouts not great but the text is useful
    TITER TEST

    :)

    The basic gist of over vaccinating is that some believe things such as epilepsy can be triggered by an over vaccination when the problem may have never been triggered otherwise. Some dogs have also had funny turns in the days after a vaccination and had to be PTS or just very different since. It is a matter of opinion as to whether it is fact or fiction, but I will continue to titre test :)
     
  11. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker PetForums Member

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    Vaccination can also cause autoimmune disease, encephalitis, extreme allergy and vaccine-specific cancers amongst other things! Not only that but its ability to actual perform its intended function is also hotly debated in the scientific community! Distemper in dogs was actually originated in a cat distemper vaccine. The vaccinated cats shed the agent from the vaccine in their faeces, which then mutated and began to infect dogs.

    Dogs who are vaccinated can get the very diseases they're meant to be protected against, whilst some dogs who aren't don't. It's not clear cut. Meanwhile the risks of vaccination (especially repeatedly, i.e. annually) are clearly documented. It's a mine field.
     
    #11 Rainmaker, Nov 16, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2009
  12. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    Just out of curiosity can you show me the source where you got this from? Hadn't actually heard of that before :)
     
  13. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker PetForums Member

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    Off the top of my head right this second, no, in all honesty. But a few minutes on google will provide it, or even ask a vet! It's not esoteric knowledge or a conspiracy theory, it's just a fact of life. :)

    Even pet insurance policies state they'll cover illness due to parvo/distemper/etc etc if the dog was vaccinated. They definitely do still succumb, even if in receipt of boosters.

    Not all un-vaccinated dogs catch illness as they'll have become immune to it in the past through passing (non-infected) contact to the 'real' thing. A healthy immune system, and herd-immunity, go a long way. There is an argument that vaccination actually weakens this effect, and canine immune systems, and drives UP infection rates.

    Catherine O'Driscoll's book "Who Killed the Darling Buds of May?" is one of a series on the science (and lack thereof) behind the vaccination drive, and is packed with scientific references against the regular use of vaccines. It also has many case studies showing adverse vaccine reactions, and details the underused 'Yellow Card System' for adverse vaccine reactions.

    EDIT: Drat and darn you! ;) You've pricked my interest now (pardon the pun)... the fact I can't remember these sources and references off the top of my head any longer has prompted me to decide to turn the house upside down to find the books and journals, and re-read them. Long night for me, then. Still, it's all good. Learning's never a bad thing. hehe :D
     
    #13 Rainmaker, Nov 16, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2009
  14. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    Lol I struggle to find things like this on the internet! I first heard about it on a golden retriever forum I use but it has mostly people from the USA on and so their sources are all for american dogs so I did some digging for over here too, and I've lost half my sources which is why I'm not too specific, can't prove it right now, lol!!

    I bet I can't find anything on the net tonight that's remotely useful either :rolleyes:

    If you find any of your books or anything I could get hold of to buy, could you tell me the titles so I can get copies?! People always doubt me when I talk about this saying there is no proof etc but there is I just forget where it is :blush:
     
  15. Jazzy

    Jazzy PetForums VIP

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    I'm with Tesco and they insured my older Bichon without boosters but it said that he wouldn't be covered for any illness that arose through lack of boosters but he was covered for everything else I think.:confused: He's vaccinated now anyway cos we had him done when we had our puppy done.
     
  16. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker PetForums Member

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    In the meantime, how's THIS for a credible source:

    Report of the American Animal Hospital
    Association (AAHA) Canine Vaccine
    Task Force: 2003 Canine Vaccine
    Guidelines, Recommendations,
    and Supporting Literature

    As you can see from its grand title, it's the official report of an investigation by the AAHA. It pretty much concludes that repeat vaccines are a waste of money and potentially harmful or worse. And that's from an independent vet authority! Read at leisure, I've put the full report on my server for you all to download if you like:

    RIGHT CLICK ME - SAVE AS....

    Cheers. :)
     
    #16 Rainmaker, Nov 16, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2009
  17. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker PetForums Member

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    Thanks Jazzy, I'll ring them and ask tomorrow. :)
     
  18. debweb

    debweb PetForums Newbie

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    keep this discussion going, i need to know more! My dog started fitting and the vet thought it was epilepsy, he was rushed to Newmarket and had every test imaginable, but the only thing they found was traces of distemper from the vaccination, so I was advised not to have him vaccinated again. He has just suddenly and peacefully passed away age 3 years, I can only think that some vital organ was damaged at the time. I am now looking for another puppy but am of the opinion that no vaccination is needed after the initial one, any more info on this would be appreciated. By the way I got on well with Eand L!
     
  19. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker PetForums Member

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    So sorry to hear that. A very sad tale indeed, and you're not alone. :( The two vets I trust most in the world (literally the world) both told me to get puppy jabs done AT MOST and never to bother with boosters. One vet (locum at a practice I used at the time) asked why my dogs of the time weren't "up to date".

    I explained everything that comprises my stance, and she shook her head and said I and 'people like me' were irresponsible and basically responsible for every sick dog in her surgery. I quickly replied with "Well if they're all vaccinated, why are they bloody sick?!"... :mad2:

    I asked her to quantify that allegation with EVIDENCE and asked her why she thought that vaccinations needed to be repeated every 12 months. Did she know how long the average conferred immunity was for a dog? She started to look a bit pale, and left the room to hunt for some vaccine textbooks and manufacturer's leaflets.

    After a good five minutes, she was looking sheepish and admitted that (1) average - average mind you - conferred immunity was up to 9 years in dogs, from a single shot, and (2) the exception was lepto of which a vaccine is only ever one or two strains (out of many), usually not the strain in your area, and even then confers immunity for a mere four to six months, and is hence useless even on a 12 month booster schedule.

    Suffice to say she apologised and thanked me for my time LOL
     
  20. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    There is some very dangerous things being said on here. NO vet would ever recommend you not to vaccinate your dog. Good heavens, if your dog then got one of the vaccinated diseases you could sue them.

    Yes, you can titre test because if you happen to live in an area where parvo and distemper are around then your dog will get natural immunity (if it doesnt get the disease) so will not need vaccinating. If it meets the virus it will either get ill or produce antibodies. But if your dog does not meet the virus and has no antibodies then when it does meet it it will very likely get ill and die.
    It wont get antibodies to leptospirosis and it will die if it gets it. A lot of vets are only doing annual lepto boosters and spreading the others out for 2 or 3 years.
    Vaccinated dogs will NOT get these diseases unless the vaccine failed which is very very rare.
    And of course not every unvaccinated dog will get it, some will have natural immunity and some will never meet the diseases.

    If you dont want to vaccinate then titre test but dont be so irresponsible as to leave your dog unvaccinated or to assume that vaccinating as a puppy will last a lifetime. It WILL NOT. Years ago it was thought it lasted much longer than it actually does and I worked for a vet in an area where there was no distemper. then someone brought an infected dog into the area and dozens of previously vaccinated dogs caught it and most died. It was heartbreaking but anything that had not been vaccinated for 3 years was going down with it. I never want to see something that horrendous again.
     
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