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Do you agree with showing dogs?

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by Tigerneko, Jun 4, 2010.


  1. Tigerneko

    Tigerneko PetForums VIP

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    ...Following on from another thread, I thought it could make an interesting discussion :)

    So, do you agree with showing dogs, and if not - what don't you like about it?

    Please remember that this a discussion and everyone is entitled to their opinion whether you agree with it or not :D
     
  2. EmCHammer

    EmCHammer PetForums VIP

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    Its not for me but I see no harm in it if the dogs enjoy it and nor do i know alot about it, these are my thoughts rightly or wrongly.

    I am sure there are good and bad in all but seeing the way some people carry on if they don't get a rosette at charity fun dog shows and flouncing off makes me think the 'proper' show world could be much worse?

    I am not into all the primping and preening side of things either and odd haircuts and also you hear alot about show dogs being alot different from their working counterparts which again don't knwo if a good or bad thing if dogs are healthy as they probably make better pets for the majority of people.

    Another thing i don't like is the way some dogs have got all these health issues due to breed standards saying they must have this and that.. but who can you really blame as if you want to do well then people are going to show the dogs that fit that standard - its up to change from above and people to recognise that things need changing. I also get the impression from the small amount of knowledge that not everyone wants change??? (i.e. the cavalier breeders in that documentary and also read something about some breeders not wanting to include a pointer gene was it to help remove the kidney problems dalmations have, cos they would not be 'pure' then?) and these examples sadly outweigh probably all the nice caring show people who do want to improve the breeds and have fun.
     
  3. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    I don't see any harm in it if the owner and dog enjoy it. I don't like it when they get insanely competitive and drag miserable dogs around the ring because they're "good type". If healthy dogs that can do their jobs are being chosen, debateable in some breeds obviously, then there's nothing wrong with it. That goes for any dog competition there was a mini poodle doing agility at Crufts tail firmly between it's legs scared but they still made her do the course.
     
    #3 Nicky10, Jun 4, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  4. Tigerneko

    Tigerneko PetForums VIP

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    Good post, and I think I do agree with you.

    There are good people and bad people out there, you get that with anything really. I think people who show at fun levels (such as myself lol) and people who show on a serious level are a totally different kettle of fish though lol I think people in a fun show all firmly believe that they deserve that rosette and no doubt sometimes act like spoiled brats, whereas I think a lot of serious show people know damn well when they're gonna win something.

    Personally show cuts and different styles don't bother me (i'm training to be a groomer so it'd be a poor do if it did lol) as it doesn't seem to affect the dogs in any way and they seem happy whether they are in a show cut or not.

    I also think you have a point with the health testing thing - people may want to do well within their breed and although they may want the breed to be healthier but in order to do well within the breed, they have to stick to the standards.

    I do think there's a lot that could be done in the way of eradicating inner health issues (ones that arent cosmetic) and I think that many breeders of many breeds could do more to prevent them - such as with the Dalmatian thing. I think they should breed with the Pointers in order to eradicate the kidney problems. I've read a fair bit about this too as my OH loves Dallies so have been doing a bit of research into them for the future :)

    although overall, I do agree with showing dogs as long as the dog enjoys it and it is a healthy representation of its breed :)
     
  5. Freyja

    Freyja PetForums VIP

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    At ' proper' shows people don't tend to go flouncing off because they don't get a rossette. At the fun shows most of the people are pet owners who don't show normally and would just like their baby to go home with a pretty rossette. People that show properly are often at shows several times a month sometimes more and respect the judges decision. Yes they may think their dog is better than the winners and may say so but the judges decision is final.

    Any one who thinks dogs don't enjoy being shown needs to come to my house on the morning of the show when the ones that aren't going are screaming because they want to come with us. God knows what the neighbours must think at the noise they make when I start putting dogs into the car.

    My whippets love meeting others of their own breed. The way they greet other whippets you'd think they lived on their own and never met other whippets not lived in a pack of 8.
     
    deb53 likes this.
  6. Tanya1989

    Tanya1989 PetForums VIP

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    I think its important to note that its not the "breed standards fault" for exaggerations within the breed, but its the interpretation of the breed standard by all breeders, judges and exhibitors that cause the problems. (Not to mention pet breeders :rolleyes: but thats going off topic). Like with everything whether its right or wrong each breed goes through a trend, whether its the coat style or the conformation. 10-20 years ago most breeds looked very different and in 20yrs time they will look different again, whether it be for the better or worse.
    With setters at the minute there is a new style of trimming that is taking off with the breed (very subtle) some are heavily trimming the ears, some are leaving them more natural. This is in england alone. Compare the trimming in england to dogs in america and the englich are shocked at how trimmed their american counter parts are.... will edit with pictures when I find them.

    BTW I agree with showing. My dogs enjoy it and so do I.

    English Setter English trimming
    english setter eng style.jpg

    English Setter American Trimming
    Am style English Setter.jpg

    Red Setter English Trimming
    Red setter (uk style).jpg

    Red Setter American Trimming
    Am Style Red Setter.jpg
     
    #6 Tanya1989, Jun 4, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  7. sequeena

    sequeena PetForums VIP

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    I'm honestly not bothered by it. If the dog likes it then fair enough. I wouldn't show a dog that didn't like the attention and everything else that goes with it.

    Showing isn't for me but I understand it's a great hobby and/or career for some.

    Just to add I don't like the deliberate breeding of exaggerations (I know we all harp on about the GSD but you have to agree here) just to win rosettes.
     
  8. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    I thought that until I judged a couple - the competition has been very fierce - in my last puppy class I had 22 entries, and could easily have placed 10 of them - the quality across the board was generally excellent and there were quite a few regular champ show people (and judges in their own right) there, and I know a large number of the exhibits have gone on to take BOB / BPIB, group 1 placings and BIS / BPIS at Open and CH level.
     
  9. Spellweaver

    Spellweaver PetForums VIP

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    This is a really good post because I think you have encapsulated a lot of what people who don't know much about showing get worried about with showing. This isn't intended as having a go at you, but I would like to address some of the points you are worried about in order to try to allay the fears somewhat - not just for you, but for others like you who are worried about similar things.

    1. There are bad sportsmen (and women!) in dog showing at Championship level just as there are in every walk of life, but in the main most people are respectful of the judge's decision - and in the odd case where someone has a genuine complaint there is a mechanism for complaining through the Kennel Club.

    2. Most show dogs are as healthy, if not healthier, than their working counterparts, and most show dogs have excellent temperaments - it takes a good temperament for a dog to stand still and allow a virtual stranger to run his/her hands all over him, including his most intimate parts. Show dogs in general really enjoy what they do - it's a day out with the family, with them at the centre of attention. When the show bag comes out our lot go mad - and one look at Gabby's poor face in the window when she realises she's not going to the show with us would be enough to convince anyone she loved showing. (She gets spoilt to bits by my OH while we are out, but even that is no consolation to her when we leave :p )

    3. Breed standards are not set by either the showing fraternity or the Kennel Club. Breed standards are set by the breed clubs - and breed clubs have members who don't show, who have pets or who have working types.

    4. Breeders and exhibitors who don't want to make sure their dogs are healthy and fit for purpose, or who do not want to embrace change for the better in their breed, are a tiny minority, not the majority.
     
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  10. Tigerneko

    Tigerneko PetForums VIP

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    Gosh I can't believe how different they look!

    Has the feathering on the Setters been straightened?

    I prefer the English version of the English Setter but in a way, I kinda prefer the American Version of the Irish....it looks odd and not natural but I do like how you can see the outline of the body on the dog, especially in that particular photo.
     
  11. Tanya1989

    Tanya1989 PetForums VIP

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    I think its mainly in the breeding. Most Am imports are much straighter in the coat than natives
     
  12. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    And oops - that will teach me to realise it's a new thread :eek:

    Yes, I agree with showing dogs, and show mine on a regular basis - but ONLY if the dog enjoys it.

    IMO - it has to be a pleasurable experience for dog and owner - I bought in a beautiful (if a bit nutty) yellow Lab with real show potential - and he hated it :( he was such a sweetheart - we qualified him for Crufts - but quickly realised it wasn't for him.

    We spent months searching for a new home (it wasn't fair leaving him behind on a regular basis) and no-one suitable came along - so we started health testing etc - then out of the blue, a friend rang and said her friend had lost their lab and their old girl needed a companion - it was love at first lick all round and he is now like a pig in sh*t living on 80 acres with his own pools, the beach near by, all the other animals and agility club in his barn - I broke my heart - but it was the right thing to do for him.
     
  13. Tigerneko

    Tigerneko PetForums VIP

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    Ah, I see!

    I wish i'd been bred to have hair that straight :thumbup:
     
  14. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    Not really sure what you are trying to say here. Both 'sides' of the breed health test and work with those results for the best possible outcome. Yes, there has been a divergence in some breeds - but, for example, both sides in my own breed can meet the breed standard and yet look different, and an increasing number of show people are now dipping their toe in the 'working' water so to speak - we've just started with my gang - very very early days yet - but the potential is definitely there with at least four of them, not to competition level - but certainly to have some fun.

    I have to say those who breed to the extreme in nearly any breed really are in the minority - 'THAT' documentary gave a very one sided view of things :(

    Maybe Ms Harrison would have done well to look at some of the abominations going on with some of the Back Yard breeders and PF - then people really would have had something to shout about.

    Don't get me wrong - I am not justifying exageration or ignoring health issues - but as with most things in life - it's humans who are at the helm - and therefore, there will always be good and bad - it's a sometimes, unpalatable - but realistic fact of life - and brings me nicely back to the fact that really the only ones with the power to stop the bad are the puppy buyers.

    Edited to add - much prefer the coats on the english bred setters.
     
  15. Fuzzbugs!x

    Fuzzbugs!x PetForums VIP

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    We show and love it :D. I love the working breeds because there is so little trimming ect and faults are pretty hard to hide. & btw lol - most champ shows you have to go buy a rosette if you want one lol and they aren't cheap either. Honestly, i think alot of show dogs are treated alot better tha some pet dogs - best food, plenty of exercise, alot worked to the job they were bred to do, extremely well socalised, great coats - it would be hard to take a dog who wasn't extremely well looked after and happy to a show because so many people would notice. I'm more talking about the working group because that's what i know most about but i can't think of a breed in the workingn group that has been bred to ruin due to misinterpretation (sp) of the breed standard? I could genuinely be wrong though lol. I've heard alot of people say that showing is cruel ect, they don't get to be real dogs. My dogs run in harness, go swimming, do agility, go to dog shows, get two to three long walks a day, they have more doggy friends than i have normal friends, go on 'doggy' holidays once a year - tell me what your dog has that mine doesnt? I'm all for having a debate and hearing other peoples opinions - it's just sad that alot of the time those opinions are based on ignorance :(. Not aimed at anyone in particular lol - just ranting :lol:x
     
  16. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    The only ones I can think of are the english and neopolitan mastiffs. It's one group that's escaped exaggaration along with most of the terriers.
     
  17. Kinjilabs

    Kinjilabs PetForums VIP

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    Me and my dogs loved showing:D
     
  18. Fuzzbugs!x

    Fuzzbugs!x PetForums VIP

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    aw yeah they are quite bad :(. I think the pastoral group too maybe? x
     
  19. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    With a few exceptions yeah the pastoral group are pretty good.
     
  20. EmCHammer

    EmCHammer PetForums VIP

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    Just a quick reply to say I know absolutely nothing about the world of showing (very much from a pound dog rescue background) and am happy to be educated; just thought would throw my thoughts in as someone with very little knowledge of this world and give my thoughts and perspective on the topic as gleaned from magazines, forums and the media etc (who I know from experience report what they want esp on subjects close to my heart such as Staffies/ Dog resuce), i.e. any notions I have about show and working lines have been based on things and opinions read rather than experience!

    :thumbup:
     
    #20 EmCHammer, Jun 5, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2010
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